Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#41

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #30

vb6sp6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

javascript and python support seem like huge improvements

I might be wrong but I believe the problem with using these languages in industrial applications has to do with the back end running them as these os's are subject to system calls or interrupts that mess with critical timing situations. I believe this is the reason 3D printers and other CNC machines still use a seperate dedicated controller such as original arduino rather than just using the GPIO on a newer arm board…

There's Industrial, and then there's Industrial.

Factory automation applications written in BASIC have been a thing for decades. Javascript & Python are improvements in many ways.

Like everything else in engineering, you have to know what you're doing, what you and your tools are capable of, and what performance is needed. Not everything has a 1ms deadline and the vast majority of so-called "industrial" applications will work perfectly fine on a 1-second loop.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#42

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

starik36 wrote: post #4

Not trying to troll - just don't know. Why would anybody use an Arduino versus a five dollar Raspberry Pi Zero?

The question is akin to "why would anyone buy an S-class Benz versus a Hyundai Elantra?"

They exist at different positions on the price/performance scale. It's as simple as that.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#43

Post by AWildC182 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

vb6sp6 wrote: post #12

katmannthree wrote: post #9

Looks like they're finally using a top-of-the-line MCU, the STM32H7. Very nice. Unfortunately I don't see how this is a significant improvement otherwise for industrial uses, where the biggest barrier for custom components is certifications (FCC, UL, CE, ATEX, etc).

javascript and python support seem like huge improvements

I'd never want to write microcontroller code in js or even really python. You spend most of your time moving strongly typed data around so yea, it's more accessible but you can't really do anything serious unless you're at least using a language with a reasonable type system.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#44

Post by ibobev » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #34

ibobev wrote: post #32

A little out of topic question, but I'm curious is it possible to program Raspberry Pi on low level without OS, just like Arduino and if not, why?

You can and people do but it’s important to note that that the raspberry pi CPU is a tiny part of the SOC and the Broadcom proprietary part that bootstraps it is completely closed.

What exactly is the "Broadcom proprietary part"?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#45

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

ibobev wrote: post #32

A little out of topic question, but I'm curious is it possible to program Raspberry Pi on low level without OS, just like Arduino and if not, why?

[deleted]

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#46

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #26

wiremine wrote: post #3

This has been a major gap for Arduino for a while, and it's cool to see them take a crack at solving it. Beyond the hardware, I'd love to get some more details on the software tool chain and their plans to sell/support turning the prototypes into production modules.

production modules If there's no second source of boards, I can't consider that production ready for anything. It was and still is a COTS module that can be modified for a single purpose application but there's no way I would resell this as a commercial unit. Same for RPi and all the others. Spin it yourself or take your chances.

The beauty of Chinese capitalism is such that if these become popular, clones will proliferate. I sell an industrial product that uses an Arduino Nano as a module on a PC board because I can buy them cheaper than I can build them.

Now, if you really care about supply chain security, that might be a problem, but for everyone else...

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#47

Post by freehunter » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #42

starik36 wrote: post #4

Not trying to troll - just don't know. Why would anybody use an Arduino versus a five dollar Raspberry Pi Zero?

The question is akin to "why would anyone buy an S-class Benz versus a Hyundai Elantra?" They exist at different positions on the price/performance scale. It's as simple as that.

It might be worth explaining the difference between the two. Plenty of people would have trouble understanding your analogy between the two cars. Jeff Bezos drives a Honda Accord.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#48

Post by jiofih » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

katmannthree wrote: post #25

vb6sp6 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should stick with the language you know the best, especially if you are the one doing the coding.

I agree with that, but writing code for industrial applications is fundamentally different from whipping up a backend for the hottest new Lyft for Parrots startup. If industrial equipment malfunctions, people can be killed or horribly maimed. Industrial equipment needs to do exactly what it was designed to do 24/7 for years or decades in horrible (EMI, temperature, etc) environments.

Pretty sure that class of equipment will not be using any kind of Arduino board (see also: certifications above).

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#49

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #47

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is akin to "why would anyone buy an S-class Benz versus a Hyundai Elantra?" They exist at different positions on the price/performance scale. It's as simple as that.

It might be worth explaining the difference between the two. Plenty of people would have trouble understanding your analogy between the two cars. Jeff Bezos drives a Honda Accord.

[response edited] Actually, I think that kinda makes my point better than I did myself!

Using Mercedes vs Hyundai implies that there's a difference in quality, whereas my intent was to say that they are basically the same but with qualitative differences that only matter depending on the actual circumstances.

I find that the typical answer to questions like this (e.g., the ones already given) tend to confuse the questioner even more by tossing out technical jargon out that isn't helpful.

In the end, the choice of one computing/control platform vs. another is really just which one happens to be a more suitable choice for the problem it's being thrown at.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#50

Post by mdszy » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

>The Portenta H7 is capable of running Arduino code, Python and JavaScript, making it accessible to an even broader audience of developers.

"Here, now you can buy hardware that enables you to hire bootcamp-level devs to do your professional industrial work. That way you can pay non-professional wages for professional-level work!"

Stop normalizing putting bloated, heavy languages on embedded platforms.