71–80 of 513 posts
Can’t say for video game industry. But software engineers are both in hot demand and well compensated, as such, I personally and the people I know are mostly content and not likely to join an union.
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I won’t comment on anything but the ageism. Most of the developers I work with are in there late 20s and early 30s. We’ve hired people in their 40s, 50s and 60s to join our team. According to those I’ve spoken with there really isn’t a challenge to find work - regardless of age. The caveat being everyone I spoke with was current on the latest languages, research, etc. If you stay current with the times you can find a…
Curious how are the 40,50,60 year old programmers working out for your team?
What i found was that age had absolutely nothing to do with anything when it came to my workplace. There were more differences between some teammates in their 20s than between them and the teammates over 40. Older teammates were not slower or learning less things or anything like that.
The only major workplace difference i have noticed between younger and older people was that they were better at estimating their schedules/delivery timelines, as well as them being able to spot certain things that younger ones havent spotted yet, i guess due to their experience with certain problems and being able to see those repeating patterns. A bit more patience and being a bit better at explaining things in bajillion different ways until one of them clicks for you; i would say social skills and ability to navigate the workplace in general were a bit higher. But that was definitely not universal for every older person, just simply talking about averages within the groups of older people i got a chance to work with.
However, i bet it had a lot to do with the kind of people we hired, and if you look at the industry averages of older people vs younger people (when it comes to being up to date on the tech stack, research, learning new things, etc), the picture painted would be vastly different.
There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…
But otherwise I agree. Based on my experience a union is just another layer of bureaucracy that ends up defining your job, career path, and etc without you getting to decide. They're just as full of mixed motivations as any employer.
There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…
USA has a pretty bad track record when it comes to unions. In theory they are great, but in practice they get implemented really poorly. I think we need to examine how other countries do unions because I agree, the one union I was in for a short time (teachers' union in California - I was basically forced to join even though the job was only temporary) felt like a ball and chain around my ankle taking a cut of my pay…
These orgnizations are NOT the places to start.
There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…
and what were your total union dues during this period ? Because if the union failed to get you a COLA increase then the dues would have put you in the red.
Being "in the red" over dues wouldn't be on by top-100 list of things to care about.
The regularly use worker hostile behavior - Two famous examples are eternal crunch times and laying off entire teams after shipping a game, even after luring them from other companies with promises they wouldn't.
Eventually, I left that industry entirely, which was unfortunate. I loved what I was making, but I hated what they could get away with doing to the workers.
It reminded me of Hollywood - So many young actors wanted the job, they knew they could mistreat them, and regularly did.
A union would be excellent here. Don't get caught up on the money part.
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If that kind of development model was that much of a liability, you'd think at least one studio or company would have figured that out and would now be killing it as a result. I suspect it's just one of many factors, and probably not that important by itself. The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and…
> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions. If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing. > Given that, it's hard to see a wa…
I could understand if things were at one point great, and then some series of events lead to a worse situation with no options leaving. But I can't understand having options and choosing the bad one and then complaining about it being bad.
Does someone have a different viewpoint that could help?
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Many well known game developers disagree with this notion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvHkaV6Ri8 that this is a huge problem. All the sources you see seem unhappy because those stories get the most attention, but it doesn't mean that those things are occurring often or everywhere.
Thanks for filling me in. My question wasn’t rhetorical, and if Carmack is right that some games literally couldn’t be made without crunch time, that does seem like a good argument that it’s not a failure even if some people find it intolerable.
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USA has a pretty bad track record when it comes to unions. In theory they are great, but in practice they get implemented really poorly. I think we need to examine how other countries do unions because I agree, the one union I was in for a short time (teachers' union in California - I was basically forced to join even though the job was only temporary) felt like a ball and chain around my ankle taking a cut of my pay…
Employers tend to be a lot more hostile to unions in the US. This manifests with deliberately spread FUD about unions (e.g. the ridiculous Walmart video), covert attempts to sabotage, depiction of schoolteachers as terrorists (by the Kentucky governor) and, in one rather extreme case, aerial bombardment of striking workers.
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Software engineers aren't the only one that work in that industry. On the dev-side there's a couple routes out, however on the design and art side adjacent industries are even worse meat-grinders or not an option.
But there in lies the problem. Most of the discussion opposed to union come from the actual software engineering aspect, but the unionization proposals are attempting to cover the multitude of sub-professions that compromise game development. It is often glossed over that actual engineers have vastly different options, priorities, and working conditions than these other workers. Carmack’s options should be seen as ad…