Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

foodandwine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 247 posts

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#121

Post by beerandt »

ppseafield wrote: post #44
Fricken wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's evidence my ancestors have been drinking milk for at least 10,000 years. It's field tested.

Dairy is the most common food allergy.

I wonder how skewed this number is in the US due to doctor's notes for (un-needed) school lunch exemptions, assuming the note got charted (which is basically mandatory with electronic records). Even when I was in school, (before allergies were cool) a large number of kids faked it for access to the alternative menu, or to be allowed to bring their own lunch and snacks. I suspect it's only gotten worse.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#122

Post by achow »

sp332 wrote: post #3

A counterpoint: these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co, the same company that loaded up Toys 'R Us with debt and then liquidated it. https://mobile.twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/121424602712711... This bankruptcy filling might just be negotiation in the courts to reduce pension obligations.

>..these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co

Not KKR.

In 1995, Borden was acquired for $2 billion by Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR), which proceeded to sell off pieces of the company to various buyers. Washington, D.C.-based ACON Dairy Investors, LLC purchased the company in 2017.

https://www.bevnet.com/news/2020/borden-dairy-co-files-for-b...

[Edit]

Not sure whether the twitt narrative is correct. From mundane wiki looks like KKR tried to right the sinking ship..

Borden suffered significant losses for the period 1991-1993...In deep financial difficulty, Borden was bought out by Kohlberg Kravis Roberts (KKR) in 1995. KKR increased the pace of divestiture, but was unable to right the company... In 1997, KKR focused the company solely on its pasta and pasta sauces lines. But the new strategy failed as well..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borden_(company)

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#123

Post by [deleted] »

masonic wrote: post #55
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's evidence my ancestors have been drinking milk for at least 10,000 years Most humans can't digest lactose after infancy [1]. For those who can, we have limited research around the quantity in and frequency with which their ancestors consumed whole milk. Comparisons to modern milk, produced by stressed-out cows bred for volume and fed god-knows-what, are tenuous. [1] https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-…

Most humans can't digest lactose after infancy [1]. That source: "Approximately 65 percent of the human population has a reduced ability to digest lactose after infancy." "Reduced ability" != "Can't"

[deleted]

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#124

Post by dfxm12 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
sp332 wrote: post #3

A counterpoint: these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co, the same company that loaded up Toys 'R Us with debt and then liquidated it. https://mobile.twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/121424602712711... This bankruptcy filling might just be negotiation in the courts to reduce pension obligations.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal?

If this is an issue for you, vote in members of Congress who care about this. There's an election coming up this year. Your representative in the house will be on the ballot, and maybe one of your senators. Please find out where the candidates on your ballot stand on this issue.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#126

Post by ilikehurdles »

gruez wrote: post #120
koboll wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, you damn well shouldn't be able to discharge pensions you've promised your employees for decades.

How would this work? If the company goes bankrupt and sold all its assets, who will you take the money from?

The same people you get your 401k matching money from when a company goes bankrupt and sells its assets. The money assigned to pensions, like the money assigned to 401ks, should not be something the company can ever take money out of or under-fund.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#127

Post by alistairSH »

swarnie_ wrote: post #86
ubermonkey wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

Can anyone link? As a limey Brit id rather listen to John Oliver then this Tucker chap. (seriously this passes for news?)

No, Tucker Carlson is not news. He's a pundit/commentator who has a talk show. Neither is John Oliver. I'd almost say they're flip sides of the same coin, except Carlson trends WAY right (often right into conspiracy theory land) and Oliver is more center-left.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#128

Post by hamstercat »

gruez wrote: post #120
koboll wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, you damn well shouldn't be able to discharge pensions you've promised your employees for decades.

How would this work? If the company goes bankrupt and sold all its assets, who will you take the money from?

The money is supposed to be invested in part by the employee and the employer at the time of payroll. This money is then moved to a fund, impossible to be touched by the company forever and ever. The fund invests the money, it grows, and then you can get an income in retirement after many years. The same could be done by the employee itself by just saving part of his paycheck and investing in a mutual fund, but most people don't have the discipline to do that so a defined-benefit pension protect the employee from itself.

That's how it works in other countries like Canada. It's relatively easy and failsafe if well implemented, I really don't understand how it can be legal for a company to access the fund like in the story.

It's a shame so many of them are so badly managed/corrupted though. As usual, most stories about pension failing are about gross mismanagement (not paying into the plan as required) or corruption (drawing into the plan innapropriatly).

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#129

Post by eldavido »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
sp332 wrote: post #3

A counterpoint: these companies were recently bought by private equity firm KKR Co, the same company that loaded up Toys 'R Us with debt and then liquidated it. https://mobile.twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/121424602712711... This bankruptcy filling might just be negotiation in the courts to reduce pension obligations.

I don't understand how bigger waves haven't yet been made about these locusts. Where's the New York Times expose? Proposals by Congress on how to make this vampirism illegal? Literally anything?

Have you or any of your friends ever worked in a non-tech, non-finance business?

Many of them are incredibly poorly run. Bad hiring practices, little/no investment in operations or process, etc.

All I'm saying is, you have to look case by case at what's going on. Sometimes the PE firm does basically loot the business. In others, entrenched management has been there decades with little board or investor oversight, is performing way below the rest of the industry, and really does need a swift kick in the ass.

Don't rush to blame the PE guys here anyway. Everyone knows Americans are drinking much less milk, they probably bought it at a deep discount knowing they might not be able to turn it into a successful business, and that bet failed.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#130

Post by scandox »

LatteLazy wrote: post #110
fennecfoxen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to fix this going forward, make all new defined-benefit pensions plans illegal, as we have amply demonstrated that they can't be trusted over the course of a lifetime. Putting your future in the hands of an automaker was bad enough; why do we expect someone to put their future in the hands of a dairy? A defined-contribution pension plan, where you end up actually owning the assets in question, is the only…

Sorry in advance, this is a bit of a rant... The problem is not defined benefit vs defined contribution really, it's that companies are not really required to fund defined benefit. There are 1001 third party companies (normally insurers) who will happily underwrite a defined benefit scheme (so if the employer goes under the pensions are fine). But that would mean employers actually making pensions contributions that…

> But actually, defined benefit schemes are less risky and far more appropriate for the average dummy than defined contribution schemes.

Well, yeah because defined benefit actually makes some kind of commitment on what you're going to get, whereas defined contribution just tells you what you'll give, right?

I mean it's all in the name. DC is just "give us yer money and sure we'll do our best for you, as long as our fees are paid"....

Post reply on HN