Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#241

Post by goldcd » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

brenden2 wrote: post #5

Probably applies to all children, not just those with specific genetic attributes.

That was my (white) read on the story.

I think what's missing isn't so much simply mentorship - it's advocacy. The children suffering the most domestic instability are those least likely to get a parent helping them or helping their school to help them.

My (widowed, middle-class, white) mother volunteered for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sure_Start and as an assistant in schools.

She guided immigrant families coming to the country through the hurdles and stories of upset "native" children being upset as Daddy's come home [from prison] and isn't being nice to Mummy.

My takeaway feeling from hearing the stories (aside from pride) is that I, and I presume most of us here, were so so lucky. We got a pretty decent launch into the world and made of it what we wanted - we've got complaints, but mainly through our own actions.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#242

Post by war1025 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

Pywarrior wrote: post #183

mentors to instill discipline?

I think what you are hitting up against here is that the "discipline" you are referring to refers to structure and accountability for their choices.

The "discipline" referred to by the article more often boils down to punishment for misdeeds.

One form builds up a person into a better version of themselves. The other is intended to break the spirit of the person and make them submissive.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#243

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #149

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that I understand what they said. It happens at school..you take kids who are hormonally challenged and have angst and frustration and you rub them the right way, you can create an army for any cause. When you come from stable families and have personal mentors, the recruiting efforts in schools and colleges fail. Someone who is a friend living in Oakland mentioned the other day that black kids are going to b…

> It is not ‘privilege’. I was the potential contained in the passed on genes of my family and they wanted to make sure I didn’t squander it. So they created the best environment for me. I had the added bonus of a large joint family which meant that the family was a miniature village of aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, nieces and nephews as one family unit. Single parenthood is tough. I wish society would stop t…

I think you may have missed parent's point. What he's saying is that having a "stable and supportive" family should really not be a privilege in the first place, regardless of material resources. Plenty of folks throughout history, even folks of very limited means and quite low station for their time, have had stable and supportive familied behind them. Families are an extremely important bedrock and building block of a community's social capital, and policy should explicitly recognize this. Calling all this mere "privilege" is a defeatist and devaluing attitude, that betrays a facile lack of empathy for the plight of those involved.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#244

Post by butternick » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

hogFeast wrote: post #152

Funnily enough, the UK had this problem about fifteen years ago. Everyone was wringing their hands madly and talking about things like mentorship, and how the education system was inherently racist (and, unfortunately, always making implications about how white people were all racist and this was a deliberate outcome) or certain groups apparently having no fathers. Fifteen years later, and black kids are more than tw…

You’re correct to state that yes black children in the UK are more likely to go to university than their white counterparts, however, this not only goes for black children but all ethic minorities. The truth is working class white children in the UK have issues British society isn’t comfortable talking about and I believe is one of the leading causes of the rise of popularism in the country.

It’s also important to note that although black children are more likely to go to university they are also 2.5 times more likely to be unemployed on comparison to their equally qualified white counterparts which indicates institutional racism. If as you suggest we avoid the topic of race solutions for issues like this will never appear.

Lastly, there is a huge black wage gap in the UK £3.2bn according to reports.

Speaking as a British black male I can say that race issues in the US and the UK aren’t as different as you make out and in a lot of ways the US is miles ahead in confronting the problem openly in contrast to the UK approach where people would rather sweep the whole issue under the carpet as you have so neatly illustrated.

Links to the data below.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/educ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/201...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2018/...

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#245

Post by bluedino » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

jpster wrote: post #192

wayoutthere wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many, many reasons why this is the case; but they were almost all a product of racist social engineering in the 20th century. And when I say racist, I mean people whose main argument was the genetic inferiority of black people. Progressives consistently caved to their demands under threat of violence. Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour co…

> Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour commute of the few places that would hire them. And yes, the “progressive” Bay Area, too. For anyone who wonders why the Bay has so few black people - the house I live in on the Peninsula was built in 1948. And its original deed forbade “colored people” from living in it. This was eventually overturned, I believ…

There were over twice as many black people in the Bay Area during the 1970's as there are now.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#246

Post by wayoutthere » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

jpster wrote: post #192

wayoutthere wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many, many reasons why this is the case; but they were almost all a product of racist social engineering in the 20th century. And when I say racist, I mean people whose main argument was the genetic inferiority of black people. Progressives consistently caved to their demands under threat of violence. Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour co…

> Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour commute of the few places that would hire them. And yes, the “progressive” Bay Area, too. For anyone who wonders why the Bay has so few black people - the house I live in on the Peninsula was built in 1948. And its original deed forbade “colored people” from living in it. This was eventually overturned, I believ…

San Francisco is repeatedly called out as the prime example in The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein -- an absolutely fascinating (and depressing) look at statutory racism in the 2nd half of the 20th century -- specifically because it has a reputation for being "progressive". It was pervasive across the country until well into the 80s.

I assume you've read it since he focuses on the narrative of a black man working in the shipyards; but for anyone interested in reading further on the subject, I highly recommend it.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#247

Post by whb07 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #233

whb07 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point exactly, it was a governmental tool that allowed these things to exist. * the laws on the books calling for discrimination and what’s known in the south as “Jim Crowe” laws (spelling). Set forth by Democrats. * the increase of government payments to lower income groups causing distortions in the nuclear family. Also black youth unemployment say pre WWII was lower than that of whites. This is post civil war,…

> Lastly, would you openly say that racism is higher today than say 50 years ago? Of course not, and yet by looking at the metrics of unemployment or family stability, things are worse. I would openly say that on the things that really matter, racism today is no better than 50 years ago. It's just had 50 years in between for the negative effects to continue compounding.

Oooooh I’m walking out of this one. Never mind we have a Supreme Court justice and a President who are/were black.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#248

Post by underpand » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:13 PM UTC

KoftaBob wrote: post #220

crimsonalucard wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why a lot of asians have this racial inferiority complex. I (being asian myself) grew up in an affluent asian dominated neighborhood of Cupertino. I had black, white and asian friends growing up and I never thought too much of racial issues. Maybe because in my schools asian americans were largely the majority. Again, I had the same experience going to school at UCLA which was largely populated mostly by asi…

I've never understood this argument regarding dating outside of one's ethnic group. The effects of actual racism is one ethnic group benefits at the expense of one or more other groups. What you're describing is something else entirely. Who's getting harmed when Asian women have a preference for white men when dating? Who cares? To each their own, no? Are you implying there's some maximum percentage of women that can…

It depends on the reason for the preference. If it's status or racial inferiority based (with the potential, unpleasant addition of fetishism and white superiority complex from her partner's side), Asian women and their partners suffer. All that weirdness would make a healthy relationship difficult.

Asian women suffer from 3 main problems.

1. If other Asian women are desperate to white men because of racial inferiority, many white men will develop the idea that Asian women are desperate, think that they are superior for being white and treat Asian women poorly. Asian women would also have lower boundaries and would tolerate more misbehavior from white men that other women would not due to the inferiority.

2. People in general seek commonality in relationships. Some Asian women who are severely affected by an inferiority complex may sub-optimally choose unwoke partners that they have little in common with. The lower commonality and inferiority also bias Asian women's partners and the partners' friends and family toward being less accepting of diversity than the average interacial relationship. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAJAVHzBsAg

3. If she does have an racial inferiority complex, then chasing white men would confirm and strengthen her racial inferiority complex and cause additional suffering.

Having established that some forms of that type of relationship can be harmful, the question to answer then is: how prevalent are racial inferiority and status/acceptance seeking from the Asian women and fetishism and white superiority complex from the white men in these relationships?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#249

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

xenihn wrote: post #215

crimsonalucard wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why a lot of asians have this racial inferiority complex. I (being asian myself) grew up in an affluent asian dominated neighborhood of Cupertino. I had black, white and asian friends growing up and I never thought too much of racial issues. Maybe because in my schools asian americans were largely the majority. Again, I had the same experience going to school at UCLA which was largely populated mostly by asi…

This post reads like it was copied from /r/asianmasculinity

Really? I think even many white people, and folks of other races besides, would feel quite awkward and embarassed at being considered "the only people worth dating", over and above the very ethnic background that these women know best! It's something that should strike everyone as strange and awkward, not just Asian males.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#250

Post by wayoutthere » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

whb07 wrote: post #247

wayoutthere wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lastly, would you openly say that racism is higher today than say 50 years ago? Of course not, and yet by looking at the metrics of unemployment or family stability, things are worse. I would openly say that on the things that really matter, racism today is no better than 50 years ago. It's just had 50 years in between for the negative effects to continue compounding.

Oooooh I’m walking out of this one. Never mind we have a Supreme Court justice and a President who are/were black.

I mean, if you think electing one black man president solves racism for all black people I don't know it's going to be a productive discussion anyway.