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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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211–220 of 406 posts

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#211

Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race. A stable upbringing with a family that you can use as role models. If you don't have that, you're in for an uphill struggle. If everyone around you is unemployed, or works in part time unskilled labour - if you're moving from home to home all of the time - if you have no bedroom - if your family argues, or yo…

> People talk about 'privilege' in upbringing because it's actually kind of rare to have a functional family.

I’m not sure how rare it is overall, but it definitely varies by region. Where I grew up (and where I live now, I moved back a couple of years ago) the traditional/stereotypically American “atomic family” seems to be the norm. Sure, I knew lots of peers as a child whose parents had divorced, but by and large they still had a functional family. The rate of so-called “broken homes” seems to have increased dramatically in the past few decades, but around me most people have an extended family to rely on. It doesn’t seem uncommon for a child to be raised by their mother (or grandmother), but even if the father is a failed person, drug addict, or criminal the kids generally have several male role models to turn to who aren’t self-destructive: uncles, grandfathers, cousins, etc.

> This is what the class system really is. Some people can jump the gap after their formative years, but most people are going to be stuck in those patterns if they've spent 20 years in the trenches.

I think you’ve absolutely nailed something here. I don’t necessarily see myself as a “mentor” - at least not formally - but I do what I can for people around me. The fact that I’m able to sit down and speak openly about my experiences and provide my perspective on their situations without coming from a place of “I’m right, you’re wrong, and this is what you should be doing” has lead to my hearing the stories of many seemingly random people who don’t have anyone else to turn to. Sometimes that has lead to their making significant improvements in their own life; sometimes it hasn’t. In every case though, I try to make sure they know that they have someone to talk to that is going to take them seriously and isn’t trying to get something from them.

I’m looking for ways to make a bigger impact in my community like this, but haven’t really found my place yet.

> I grew up in a poor family; my father left when I was young. The one thing we had (aside from the absolute warrior-woman of my mother), provided by the government back in the day, was a council house. A low rent secure tenancy. So whilst everything else was a struggle, my mother was able to provide a relatively stable housing situation for us.

My situation seems similar at least at first glance. My mother was 17, and my biological father was basically a burnout and petty criminal. I never knew him, but perhaps paradoxically respect him for that - he corresponded enough with my mother to know that I was safe and was being raised in a stable environment, so he explicitly made the decision to stay out of my life. Because of that my impression of him is of someone who was intelligent and empathetic, but flawed and misguided.

Where it sounds the state was a force of stability in your life, extended family took that role in mine. I lived with my grandparents until I was six years old because my mother was single and couldn’t afford to provide a healthy environment for me at the time. She was always there for me, and present as often as she could be, but she prioritized getting herself into an economic and social position to care for me over herself and what she wanted. I’m sure it was very difficult and painful for her to only see me on the weekends when I was young, but in that time she met my dad (my “real” dad, not my biological father), built a career, and got to a place where she could care for me. Eventually, she was able to care for my grandparents as well. I look at her life story so far as an inspiration; there are many parts that I wouldn’t want to experience and things she’s striven for that I don’t want for myself, but her sheer force of will and persistence is something I try to live up to.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#212
post #207

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I think the previous commenter is on to something re icebreakers. Also, please check out Carol Dweck’s work on Growth Mindset. Her book shares examples of how researchers and teachers successfully primed underprivileged students to stop thinking of intelligence as a fixed trait. Some interesting mindset “hacks” that eventually helped them outperform students w/better resources.

With a pre-registered, much larger sample size, Growth mindset replicated but the effect size was tiny:

https://psyarxiv.com/md2qa

On a 4-point grade metric (“A” = 4.0, “B” = 3.0, etc.), the average treatment effect was 0.03 grade points

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to assume the /s is to be able to spout racist crap and still claim the veneer of irony. "It was just a joke!" is not a valid defense for saying racist things.

Its called "sarcasm".

Sarcastic racism is still racism. It perpetuates the hateful stereotypes without claiming them, which almost seems worse.

I stopped being sarcastic in general when a friend pointed out that it's usually based in some form of hatred -- whether of yourself or someone else.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#214
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you fully answered either of my questions. I appreciate that your limited personal experience is closer to what we would like to see, at least in your telling of it. I still await your further thoughts.

It appears I can't answer your questions to your satisfaction. I live in the deep South. I provided my (not limited) experience and exposure to professional environments as evidence. And that experience, and the application of Occam's razor, tells me your claims that bias and racism is more effective now that it is comparatively invisible is absurd.

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#215

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I wonder why a lot of asians have this racial inferiority complex. I (being asian myself) grew up in an affluent asian dominated neighborhood of Cupertino. I had black, white and asian friends growing up and I never thought too much of racial issues. Maybe because in my schools asian americans were largely the majority. Again, I had the same experience going to school at UCLA which was largely populated mostly by asi…

This post reads like it was copied from /r/asianmasculinity

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#216
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course the engineering of the powerful Jews and Asians so that they now represent the upper tiers of the income distribution. /s Employment and family stats were vastly better pre 1960s government regulations. This isn’t some grand evil plan but the standard outcomes of a “we need more government help”, also known as “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”.

Were they? Red lining was government intervention. Or maybe you think before slavery was made illegal more people had jobs? Because yes. They were slaves.

My point exactly, it was a governmental tool that allowed these things to exist.

* the laws on the books calling for discrimination and what’s known in the south as “Jim Crowe” laws (spelling). Set forth by Democrats.

* the increase of government payments to lower income groups causing distortions in the nuclear family.

Also black youth unemployment say pre WWII was lower than that of whites. This is post civil war, where you attempt to say some slavery reference.

Lastly, would you openly say that racism is higher today than say 50 years ago? Of course not, and yet by looking at the metrics of unemployment or family stability, things are worse.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#217
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears I can't answer your questions to your satisfaction. I live in the deep South. I provided my (not limited) experience and exposure to professional environments as evidence. And that experience, and the application of Occam's razor, tells me your claims that bias and racism is more effective now that it is comparatively invisible is absurd.

You could answer this question: >Is it easier or harder to fight discrimination in, say, employment when, "We don't hire negroes," is stated upfront, compared to when black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons? And expound upon this assertion: >something else is clearly doing the lion's share of destruction.

>You could answer this question:

>>Is it easier or harder to fight discrimination in, say, employment when, "We don't hire negroes," is stated upfront, compared to when black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons? You are begging the question. Of course it's easier to fight enemies who are out in the open, distinct, and widespread. And it's harder to fight enemies that are well-camouflaged. But it's also harder to fight enemies that are partially imagined, distorted, and sometimes nonexistent.

I take issue with your insinuation, as I tried to illustrate in my anecdote, that discrimination where black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons, is widespread.

>And expound upon this assertion:

>>something else is clearly doing the lion's share of destruction.

It's pretty simple, really. If one concludes that discrimination isn't as prevalent as it was decades ago and has diminished as time has passed while also noticing that its attributed consequences are more prevalent, then it's reasonable to assume something else is to blame.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#218
post #105

I think Boondocks, a cartoon about black boys that was written and drawn by a black boy, most accurately illustrates (pun!) the desired solution for black mentorship. Grandpa Robert Freeman literally fills this role for his two grandkids, especially with Riley. Uncle Ruckus offers an even better example. Maybe we should look to this show for guidance on the issue.

Uncle Ruckus is not a role model (to borrow from Charles Barkley)

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#220

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I wonder why a lot of asians have this racial inferiority complex. I (being asian myself) grew up in an affluent asian dominated neighborhood of Cupertino. I had black, white and asian friends growing up and I never thought too much of racial issues. Maybe because in my schools asian americans were largely the majority. Again, I had the same experience going to school at UCLA which was largely populated mostly by asi…

I've never understood this argument regarding dating outside of one's ethnic group. The effects of actual racism is one ethnic group benefits at the expense of one or more other groups. What you're describing is something else entirely.

Who's getting harmed when Asian women have a preference for white men when dating? Who cares? To each their own, no? Are you implying there's some maximum percentage of women that can prefer another ethnic group when dating, and anything above that is problematic?

Edit: I should've specified that I'm talking explicitly about their commentary on asian women's dating patterns, not anything else in their comment.

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