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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#51
post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

Specifically, I understand a 1968 law put into effect the Man in the House rule. Black families had to decide if welfare would pay better than the father's job. Many left the house so the mother and child(ren) could receive the welfare payment. The Moe Factz podcast has been helpful to me in understanding these structural problems in society.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Man-in-the-Ho...

http://www.moefactz.com/

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#52
post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

I agree with that. At some primitive level, I think we see our fathers as protector and provider. When he's not around, the pressure is really on boys to assume that role. And so it without the maturity and tools that adults have.

My father moved out when I was 14 and, although he was never far away and visited all the time, I was pretty angry about. For years. It really wasn't even his fault.

It is not just an issue for black boys, of course. Rates of fatherless homes have been rising in the US for whites and hispanics too.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#53
post #31

This gets into a much larger issue of policing intersectioning with darker skinned peoples in the US. When many of the dads are arrested in jail or prison, obviously they aren't being mentors. And they aren't permitted to be in their childrens' lives. And much of this is overpolicing and overcriminialization. Add this to sentences being worse, and it's unsurprising it happens. We as a nation are setting the situation…

Or underpolicing. Blacks are at much higher risk of being the victim of violent crime than whites. Even the boy in the article's brother was murdered. Lack of security means people take it into their own hands and you get violent gangs and/or a harmful honor based society.

I'm pretty sure the previous poster is mainly referring to the criminalization of low-level drug use and the heavily racially biased enforcement of it.

You're talking about the heavily racially biased under-enforcement/implementation of laws and programs to reduce violent crime.

Just highlighting that a racial bias in the criminal justice system is the common theme. Not that you weren't making the same point, it just didn't seem clear to me one way or the other.

Here are some nice stats if anyone wants some numbers to chew on: https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#54
post #32
post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

'Years ago, I interviewed Kweisi Mfume, then the president of the NAACP. "As between the presence of white racism and the absence of black fathers," I asked, "Which poses the bigger threat to the black community?" Without missing a beat, he said, "The absence of black fathers."' - Larry Elder

A big reason for the absence of black fathers is institutional white racism.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

Roughly 1 in 9 black men between 20-34 are currently incarcerated (11%). It's probably a much higher percentage that have been incarcerated in the last 3 years.

https://images.app.goo.gl/YkRnZyqdV4M5dSC19

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#56
post #12

Great article, but our societal approach to minority folks is not oriented towards individual mentorship unfortunately. Self-reliance is not considered a meaningful goal - it's so much more convenient to herd them towards ethnically-focused non-profits and "community organizers" funded by government or by politically-minded foundations; mold them into people who will always be dependent on the government for somethin…

> Self-reliance is not considered a meaningful goal - it's so much more convenient to herd them towards ethnically-focused non-profits and "community organizers" funded by government or by politically-minded foundations, mold them into people who will always be dependent on the government for something, 'useful idiots' for the political cause du jour. Sorry, there is no evidence for this at all. The community organiz…

I think that I understand what they said. It happens at school..you take kids who are hormonally challenged and have angst and frustration and you rub them the right way, you can create an army for any cause.

When you come from stable families and have personal mentors, the recruiting efforts in schools and colleges fail. Someone who is a friend living in Oakland mentioned the other day that black kids are going to be radicalized anyways there. It used to be that gangs were recruiting them in the past and now it’s schools recruiting them as they are the future vote bank when they become adults.

It was remarkable to me in that how similar this was to radicalized students in India. But that was usually after high school and during their public university years...because single parenthood was uncommon (during my time there) and parents were very involved with their kids till school and then they become raw bill board material especially when they leave home to go to study.

But in the USA, it starts earlier as public schools are parents and guardians by proxy. Single parenthood is more common and they have to work to make $$. That’s why I see school kids walking out to support their teachers when the teacher unions strike. I couldn’t believe it when I first witnessed it..they were kids and the teachers had no qualms about recruiting them for causes. I still can’t wrap my mind around it.

As I get older, I value my youth..especially the years before I turned 25. I have always read and tried to study all my life but the most optimal time was in the first 25 years. I was able to read and retain what I learnt. I was able to absorb what I read. I had financial freedom and health. I didn’t have financial responsibility and it came little by little. I was still young enough that I didn’t feel bad about asking for help from my family if I failed. I was forgiven easily for transgressions and people were patient with me because I had potential that goes hand in hand with youth. I had someone behind me who would go after those who would want to harm me. I enjoyed what I call the ‘elasticity of youth’ in that I could make a mistake, bounce back and fix it without being overly judged.

That is priceless. It mostly came because I had stable and supportive family. It is not ‘privilege’. I was the potential contained in the passed on genes of my family and they wanted to make sure I didn’t squander it. So they created the best environment for me. I had the added bonus of a large joint family which meant that the family was a miniature village of aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, nieces and nephews as one family unit. Single parenthood is tough. I wish society would stop telling people that it’s easy. Community can take the place of family. Just don’t hand it over to govt that needs to be elected to maintain power and status quo.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

Yeah right it’s the government taking black men at random in the street and putting them in jail for the single reason they’re black, just to destroy the black community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the said individuals breaking laws (sometimes with the side effect of creating another father-less family in the process), which are the same for everyone. Also doing criminal acts is a choice, not something that…

sigh, so what you are saying black men and other men get the same sentences for the same crimes and its all equal. Thanks for the info.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#58
post #54
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Years ago, I interviewed Kweisi Mfume, then the president of the NAACP. "As between the presence of white racism and the absence of black fathers," I asked, "Which poses the bigger threat to the black community?" Without missing a beat, he said, "The absence of black fathers."' - Larry Elder

A big reason for the absence of black fathers is institutional white racism.

The higher crime rates leading to higher incarceration rates is probably a bigger factor than "white racism".

Edit: Making this edit to clarify what I'm trying to say, since several responses has tipped me off to how it could be read. Being black doesn't have anything to do with committing more crimes. Higher crime rates is much more a factor of economic and family status. Both of which are negatively impacted by higher crime rates, which reinforces the cycle to everyone's dismay. Those statuses are on average worse in the black community than others, which causes a large part of the statistical difference. The causes of the difference stem from the legacy of racism and choices that were made in designing welfare programs, at least in large part. Which sucks.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#59
post #55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

Roughly 1 in 9 black men between 20-34 are currently incarcerated (11%). It's probably a much higher percentage that have been incarcerated in the last 3 years. https://images.app.goo.gl/YkRnZyqdV4M5dSC19

1. That's an insanely large part of that population.

2. 11% still doesn't go a long way in explaining the "fatherless issue", although we probably need firm numbers on that too.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

Yeah right it’s the government taking black men at random in the street and putting them in jail for the single reason they’re black, just to destroy the black community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the said individuals breaking laws (sometimes with the side effect of creating another father-less family in the process), which are the same for everyone. Also doing criminal acts is a choice, not something that…

Well yes, that's structural racism for you. And before you judge people for committing crimes, ask yourself: would you have abstained if you had the same life story? Do you think they would fall into crime less if they had a more privileged upbringing?
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