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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#41

Post by mlyle »

grzm wrote: post #36
mlyle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vouched your comment which was dead, but I think it's deliberately obtuse. I think what people are speaking to is a second involved parent from shortly after birth-- which will most likely be a father/man. A second parental figure makes a world of difference, especially when confronting poverty and an educational environment that does not provide additional support. > It’s almost as if things we know to be true are…

> "I vouched your comment which was dead, but I think it's deliberately obtuse." If a comment is dead and you think it's unhelpful ("deliberately obtuse"), don't reward it by vouching for it. It's likely going to generate even more noise. (Note a sibling comment which is is only argumentative, not moving the discussion forward.) If you have a point to make, make it in a separate comment.

I think they deserve a chance to speak rather than be buried, even if I think the argument is dubious and poorly made.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#42

Post by kkwak »

notrekasa wrote: post #15
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

While there are injustices, what percentage of the jail time is due to actually breaking the law?

Isn't it valid to put people who break the law behind bars?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#44

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

This guy sounds great, and I hope that he is allowed to continue doing his great work. The fact that he has the position that he has, speaks volumes for the school district. I don't think my (affluent, painfully white suburban) school district has the same.

I feel that mentorship isn't just restricted to someone officially appointed to the position. It's pretty much anyone that has a weighted relationship to anyone (not just kids). That includes spouses, parents, relatives, older siblings, peers, teachers, cops, insurance adjustors, union shop stewards, DMV clerks, and, of course, bosses.

For example, corporate culture comes from the top. It almost doesn't matter what the corporate values statement says. I believe that the behavior of the C-suite is the single biggest driver of corporate culture.

I've learned that I need to model the values I'd like others to exhibit. It's not a guarantee that they will, but it improves the odds.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#45

Post by mlyle »

pm90 wrote: post #12
zozbot234 wrote: post #4

Great article, but our societal approach to minority folks is not oriented towards individual mentorship unfortunately. Self-reliance is not considered a meaningful goal - it's so much more convenient to herd them towards ethnically-focused non-profits and "community organizers" funded by government or by politically-minded foundations; mold them into people who will always be dependent on the government for somethin…

> Self-reliance is not considered a meaningful goal - it's so much more convenient to herd them towards ethnically-focused non-profits and "community organizers" funded by government or by politically-minded foundations, mold them into people who will always be dependent on the government for something, 'useful idiots' for the political cause du jour. Sorry, there is no evidence for this at all. The community organiz…

I don't think it's deliberate. But we have a long history of harm being done by well-meaning efforts. It's easy for efforts to help to end up just creating more dependency and further collapsing the social order, and it's difficult to study the effects of charity.

My charity in this area is Big Brothers Big Sisters (which is also mentorship based), because they have actual well-designed studies that show the intervention is very effective. The study design compared kids who were stuck on the waitlist for BBBS to those who they allowed to shortcut the line, and showed much better outcomes than the latter.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#47

Post by corporate_shi11 »

maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

It is hard for the Left and social justice advocates to admit this simple truth because it shifts the blame to black mothers and fathers (where some blame certainly belongs) for many of the problems in the black community.

There is a compulsion among the political Left in the West for shifting blame to institutions and forces in society rather than individuals, where it often belongs. Shifting blame to outside forces often feels good as it absolves the individual, but this distracts us from real solutions that can bring about real change.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#48

Post by wayoutthere »

maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

There are many, many reasons why this is the case; but they were almost all a product of racist social engineering in the 20th century. And when I say racist, I mean people whose main argument was the genetic inferiority of black people. Progressives consistently caved to their demands under threat of violence.

Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour commute of the few places that would hire them. It's hard to do when you have to work 2 jobs because the few neighborhoods you are allowed to live in are expensive. It's hard to do when under constant police harassment.

The erosion of the family fabric of black communities in America was malicious, intentional, and far more recent than many are willing to believe (which is why this comment will probably be downvoted to hell). And there's no great conspiracy about it because it was done in the open.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#49

Post by kumarski »

3 things that are noticeable about black people in America.

* They weren't really allowed viable property access until the last 50 years or so. 100's of years of catch up to make up for.

* Accumulating disadvantage of fatherless and motherless households.

* The blast radius of municipal violations disproportionately afflicts black people in the USA.

Not saying I like these things, but they're core problems.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#50

Post by tasogare »

notrekasa wrote: post #15
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

Yeah right it’s the government taking black men at random in the street and putting them in jail for the single reason they’re black, just to destroy the black community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the said individuals breaking laws (sometimes with the side effect of creating another father-less family in the process), which are the same for everyone. Also doing criminal acts is a choice, not something that happens by accident.
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