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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#511

Post by magduf »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #224
MereInterest wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. For example, pulling up to an intersection and only looking to the left before making a right turn, because that is the only direction that car traffic can be coming from. It isn't every car by any means, but enough cars that pedestrians need to assume that drivers are incompetent until given evi…

>> Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. Strange, because most likely the majority of drivers also walk at least a short distance around the same cities they drive into. In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen, it's very hard to believe t…

>In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen

You sound like a non-American. Let me give you some advice: take everything you've ever seen about NYC, and file that in a different place in your brain's filing system away from your file labeled "America". It does not represent America in any way when talking about cars, walkability, culture, or really anything else really. It's a place that's totally unique in the world. For some reason, too many non-Americans see movies set in NYC and think that all of America is just like this, and it isn't at all.

(Personally, I wish it was more representative of America in terms of walkability, but it just isn't.)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#512

Post by rconti »

pi-rat wrote: post #486
rconti wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What highway? I was pretty surprised to not be on a proper motorway, it was all 2-lane highways. IIRC it was max 80km, with plenty of 70km and lower limits. I drove Oslo Airport -> Flåm -> Bergen -> Oslo Airport. Looks like E16 / 7 / 52 were the roads involved, 968km loop.

Which mean you went the scenic route, crossed the mountain, hit the fjords, etc. The leg after Voss on Flåm->Bergen won the price of "the worst road in Norway"[1]. The motorways are mostly on the south-eastern part of Norway, where it's reasonably flat. There aren't that many of them, building infrastructure here is really hard. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/e16-bergen-voss-kara-til-_noreg...

Us foreigners could be forgiven for thinking the route between the two largest cities would have the busiest/most built up motorways :) I think the route via Flåm could certainly be considered "the scenic route", but my trip back was the most direct route per Google Maps.

I don't disagree that it's very difficult to build infrastructure! Every road must follow the contours of a fjord, or go over or through a mountain. I was very lucky to be able to drive the world's longest tunnel; I had read about it but honestly forgot about it until I made a left turn into a mountain and was perplexed as to how I could get to where I was going by driving into it.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#513

Post by slavik81 »

6510 wrote: post #346
mumblemumble wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really astonished that Americans don't do it the same way. Americans tend to have strange ideas about walking. If they think about it at all, they tend to think of it as something that's only done in extremis. I've discovered, for example, that, when I travel for work, it's generally useless to ask hotel staff if they can recommend any restaurants "within walking distance" when I'm staying in a suburban area. T…

I've grown the habit of telling people (in walking context) there are ultra marathons where people walk 5000 km and (in cycling contest) that I know low end cycling enthusiasts who do 300 km in a day - pushing as hard as they can. Their fitness is much closer to ours than to those winning the Tour de France. In my mind that means looking up to 1.5 km walk or 10 km of cycling really says more about me and you than it…

> there are ultra marathons where people walk 5000 km and [...] the world walking record is 175 km in 24 hours.

Is that right? That's 685 days of continuous walking at the world record speed.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#514

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bluGill wrote: post #501
Johnny555 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so why bother creating space for those modes. My suburb had 2 very popular parks at either end -- as kids, we always walked or rode our bikes there... on the road since there were no sidewalks. Likewise when we went to a friends house we generally walked on the road (or cut through people's yards). There are plenty of reasons to have sidewalks even if there's no commercial destination to get to, not everyone can driv…

One advantage of suburbs is there is so little traffic you can let your kids play in the street.

There are city centers like that too, it’s not an exclusive property of suburbs.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#515

Post by Johnny555 »

bluGill wrote: post #501
Johnny555 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so why bother creating space for those modes. My suburb had 2 very popular parks at either end -- as kids, we always walked or rode our bikes there... on the road since there were no sidewalks. Likewise when we went to a friends house we generally walked on the road (or cut through people's yards). There are plenty of reasons to have sidewalks even if there's no commercial destination to get to, not everyone can driv…

One advantage of suburbs is there is so little traffic you can let your kids play in the street.

My old neighborhood used to be like that - but based on the speed bumps and "Slow down" signs (both official signs and signs that parents put up) that I see in that neighborhood, the traffic has increased (looks like they filled in some former farmland with apartment buildings near the back of the development), and now it's less safe for children to play or walk in the street.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#516

Post by MandieD »

kalleboo wrote: post #495
rootusrootus wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway also produces nearly 10x as much oil per capita as the US. Everybody seems to forget that when pointing out how nice the place is.

Usually producing a lot of oil is correlated with poor economic outcomes, not good ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

Unlike most other petrostates, Norway has had the sense not to get high on their own supply - higher fuel taxes than their neighbors, stashing the oil revenues in a permanent fund, and taxing the heck out of their high salaries to pay for government spending.

When the oil runs out, they’ll still have their (currently) 1 Trillion dollar permanent fund to cushion the blow.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#517

Post by CydeWeys »

jessaustin wrote: post #470
CydeWeys wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've got to go up and down to cross every single intersection? That sounds like a nightmare that makes walking take significantly longer.

It works because driving is so inconvenient there.

If driving is already so inconvenient why not just relegate it even further and prioritize walking over vehicles at intersections? Why should all the larger numbers of pedestrians be forced to take much longer to get where they're going on account of all these bridges to benefit a smaller number of vehicles?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#518

Post by rootusrootus »

alkonaut wrote: post #480
rootusrootus wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway also produces nearly 10x as much oil per capita as the US. Everybody seems to forget that when pointing out how nice the place is.

Is that an environment argument? Or an argumenbt that the money somehow doesn't count or helps ensure a good living standard? That oil money does help living standards. Especially since a big state ownership plus big Nordic welfare state ensures it ends up helping pretty much everyone.

Environmental, for sure. They may not be burning all that oil themselves, but it would not get burned at all if they did not pull it out of the ground.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#519

Post by jessaustin »

CydeWeys wrote: post #517
jessaustin wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works because driving is so inconvenient there.

If driving is already so inconvenient why not just relegate it even further and prioritize walking over vehicles at intersections? Why should all the larger numbers of pedestrians be forced to take much longer to get where they're going on account of all these bridges to benefit a smaller number of vehicles?

Sure, improvements should be made. The pedestrian bridges themselves are improvements. People use them by choice, and not because they appreciate the exercise. It would be easy to underestimate just how many many vehicles and pedestrians are attempting to navigate the metro Manila area. Roads and other transit infrastructure are seriously lacking in Philippines, relative to that seen in more "developed" nations.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#520

Post by t0mas88 »

alkonaut wrote: post #305
t0mas88 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safety increase of highway speedcameras is very limited. They help the environment and generate a lot of cash, but in terms of accidents the impact is very low because not a lot of accidents happen on highways with split lanes and only cars. And those that do happen are statistically much more related to alcohol, drugs, tired driving and adverse weather. In cities it's different, there even a 10 km/h reduction ma…

Why would you put the speed cameras on highways then? Here they are on 50-60km/h roads, some times 70. On faster roads they are only near crossings where the speed limit is reduced.

Netherlands has speedcameras and average speed checks on a lot of highways. Mostly because it works as a good public statement to claim you have "caught a lot of speeding to make traffic safer" while you don't actually have to hire any extra police officers for it.
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