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On Privacy versus Freedom

matrix.org

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Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#171

Post by brnt »

blindgeek wrote: post #110

My biggest problem with messaging applications as a whole is that I need so many of them. I have a few contacts who are reachable with Signal, a few more who are reachable on Hangouts or whatever Google is calling its latest thing, and a few more who are reachable with Skype. That's three programs, to communicate with three different subsets of people. I'm sure if I used Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp, I'd have two…

I was using multi-protocol clients such as Trillian/Miranda/Pidgin for most of the 00's. It did not matter much what client/protocol somebody was using, in all likelyhood it was supported by such multi-protocol clients.

At some point, reverse engineering/implementing protocols must have lost the interest of that part of the community.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#172

Post by sudosysgen »

saagarjha wrote: post #142
sudosysgen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you pull a Telegram and create a good alternative to APN/Firebase.

What alternative is there on iOS?

None, yet. But I don't see why it would be completely impossible.

Also, Apple is what, 20% of market share? Less? Why compromise for 80% of users because 20% use a locked down ecosystem (read: jail) voluntarily?

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#173

Post by sudosysgen »

viro wrote: post #54
prophesi wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's a worthwhile pursuit. Moxie's points simply don't make sense, and are infuriating / disrespectful to those who are working on solving decentralization's issues. _Of course_ it will be difficult. But the same argument could be made for building a completely unencrypted messenger app. You won't have to worry about managing keys, obfuscating metadata, or anything like that. At the end of the day, it's about rea…

He's been anti-complexity for awhile. the matrix ecosystem is far more complex than signal.

That complexity is useful and justified.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#174

Post by sudosysgen »

tptacek wrote: post #123
sudosysgen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SGX is crypto that is already exploited and broken, it offers no real use in this context. Oh, and I forgot, you do need to essentially blindly trust Intel.

I don't really care and think this is all a red herring, since every other mainstream messenger doesn't protect this information at all, but instead stores it in plaintext databases.

Yes, but it's barely better when reconstructing the social graph is so easy.

Also, Matrix offers a possible alternative.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#175

Post by bscphil »

3xblah wrote: post #130
bscphil wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You realistically can't use Signal without an Apple ID I do, because I got it and signed up for an account on my Android phone... Okay, I realize what you're getting at here, but it seriously irks me when people talk as if Apple was the only ecosystem, or even the most popular ecosystem, when it is neither. I probably don't even need a Google Play Store account if I can find an unmodified APK that's signed by OWS.

curl https://updates.signal.org/android/latest.json |grep -o "http[^\"]*" https://updates.signal.org/android/Signal-website-universal-... Source: https://signal.org/android/apk/

Thanks! I must admit I never looked for one, the point was more about the possibility. I think this implies it is definitely false that OWS would be able to identify you without a phone number. Because there are ways to use their app without providing any other personal identifier.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#176

Post by viro »

sudosysgen wrote: post #173
viro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's been anti-complexity for awhile. the matrix ecosystem is far more complex than signal.

That complexity is useful and justified.

https://matrix.org/docs/guides/moderation/#kicking-and-banni.... FFS that is a lot of text just to kick a nazi out of the cybersecurity chat .. who is the mod for that big ass chat? I have't the faintest clue. No easy way for me to tell.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#177

Post by anoncake »

evgen wrote: post #148
dancemethis wrote: post #119

Signal really tries hard to not be trustworthy. The way they defend WhatsApp is heart-breaking. It's cute to see them saying there is no backdoor when it can't be proven to be the case, since it's all proprietary. They can't show the server side wasn't tampered with. Same with Skype.

The constant repetition of this ignorant claim is starting to be annoying. Think there is a client backdoor? Go find it. It is not like the binary is not available to you. It is not like there are not emulators in which you can step through the code. Please, show us the backdoor. Server side tampering? Show us how it can be done. Create a server that can tamper with a patched client. Demonstrate your chops.

That is not how security works.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#178

Post by chithanh »

viro wrote: post #54
prophesi wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's a worthwhile pursuit. Moxie's points simply don't make sense, and are infuriating / disrespectful to those who are working on solving decentralization's issues. _Of course_ it will be difficult. But the same argument could be made for building a completely unencrypted messenger app. You won't have to worry about managing keys, obfuscating metadata, or anything like that. At the end of the day, it's about rea…

He's been anti-complexity for awhile. the matrix ecosystem is far more complex than signal.

> He's been anti-complexity for awhile.

And then he turns around and releases Signal-Desktop based on Electron?!

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#179

Post by tptacek »

sudosysgen wrote: post #174
tptacek wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really care and think this is all a red herring, since every other mainstream messenger doesn't protect this information at all, but instead stores it in plaintext databases.

Yes, but it's barely better when reconstructing the social graph is so easy. Also, Matrix offers a possible alternative.

What makes you believe that?

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#180

Post by Pete_D »

blindgeek wrote: post #110

My biggest problem with messaging applications as a whole is that I need so many of them. I have a few contacts who are reachable with Signal, a few more who are reachable on Hangouts or whatever Google is calling its latest thing, and a few more who are reachable with Skype. That's three programs, to communicate with three different subsets of people. I'm sure if I used Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp, I'd have two…

> XMPP was supposed to solve all those problems when it came out in the early 2000s.

The really frustrating thing is that it almost did. I swear I remember at some point in the mid-2000s being able to send a message from Google Chat to Facebook. I think the option was hidden behind some account flags to enable external messages, but it was there.

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