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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#421

Post by user5994461 »

stevehawk wrote: post #319
pi-rat wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seatbelt issue is probably going away. My car will nag the hell out of me if anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt at speeds over 20 km/h. I assume this is true for most modern cars. Part of the population who didn't grow up with seatbelts is aging. I remember my late grandmother hated the seatbelts, they didn't exist when she grew up. Often she would pretend to use the belt, holding it in place by hand so that it looked l…

Is that easily bypassed? I don't need my car nagging me because I put a large box in my back seat.

For the cars I had, it was only on the driver seat. I think it's fair to assume there is always a person driving.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#422

Post by tomtheelder »

throwawaysea wrote: post #398
turk73 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Also need to look at travel times. Norway has low speed limits and makes driving an inconvenience in the pursuit of perfect safety records. But it takes away from being able to get where you want quickly (cities with road infrastructure that is not over-subscribed are way faster to get around than walking/biking/public transit) and on your own terms (no waiting times, room for people/cargo, etc.). The tradeoffs for a…

https://www.numbeo.com/traffic/rankings.jsp

Best source I can find, suggests that travel times in Oslo are decent by world standards, and falls about where you would expect a US city of that size and density to be. It's conveniently right next to Portland, which was listed by the grandparent comment as a comparable.

The density required to have walking/biking/transit be realistic and efficient options makes over-subscribed roads a certainty unless you actively restrict automobile traffic. Private cars as the primary means of transportation works brilliantly in low to mid density areas, but fails utterly in high density ones.

There is no one size fits all solution for all cities. In my opinion it seems quite clear that there should be a negative correlation between density and private automobile usage in order to optimize safety and efficiency for all.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#423

Post by esoterica »

throwawaysea wrote: post #398
turk73 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Also need to look at travel times. Norway has low speed limits and makes driving an inconvenience in the pursuit of perfect safety records. But it takes away from being able to get where you want quickly (cities with road infrastructure that is not over-subscribed are way faster to get around than walking/biking/public transit) and on your own terms (no waiting times, room for people/cargo, etc.). The tradeoffs for a…

Not true. Cars are extremely space inefficient. The only way to have road infrastructure that is not oversubscribed is to have both low population and population density. But low density means having to travel much further distances to access basic amenities. It is not faster or more convenient to drive 10 miles to the grocery store than walk 2 blocks, even if driving 10 miles is a lot quicker out in the sticks.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#424

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jubjubbird wrote: post #410
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In comparison, Detroit MI in the US has the same population and something like 46 pedestrian fatalities per year. https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2017/04/14/report-detroi...

> The report shows that Detroit had 130 total traffic fatalities in 2015 - 46 of those were pedestrian.

Thanks! Fixed.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#425

Post by esoterica »

turk73 wrote: post #365
Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Why are you assuming that more driving means a higher standard of living? That’s a very provincial and suburban perspective to have. I’d rather be able to walk and take the subway places than have to drive everywhere.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#426

Post by rth »

Because he was the only person in the country and made an accident?

Whole country 5 million (Oslo 673.000) and 20 percentage expats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway

You can't have much accidents already by default.

There are many cities in the world like Berlin, Tokyo, Moscow population way bigger than whole Norway.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#427

Post by QuarterReptile »

tehwalrus wrote: post #233
alistairSH wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.

When I visited the USA for a conference, I looked up a nice coffee place that was just across the street from the academic campus where I was staying. I went to the nearest crossing point, waited for several cycles of the traffic lights, and still couldn't deduce when it was safe to cross. The road markings were black and white stripes, which mean "cars must always stop for pedestrians crossing here" where I live (UK…

The best understanding of those painted markings is that they mean nothing until you find strong social conventions indicating otherwise. City norms will be passed as state laws, creating discrepancies in rural regions between the law and the expectations. Bad drivers flow from everywhere to everywhere else with no regard for discrepancies in laws. The only markings I would trust are the scramble intersections, which I've only seen in Guam. And walk signals can often be trusted.

For evidence that people don't know state/local laws, ask a group of people in the US when they are permitted to u turn. It varies widely, mostly in insignificant ways.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#428

Post by CydeWeys »

bluGill wrote: post #381
CydeWeys wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize how catastrophically expensive it would be to build and maintain all of these bridges and pathways along with the four elevators per intersection? And how closed in and claustrophobic it would make the street level feel like from blocking out so much sun? If this idea were viable, someone somewhere in the world would have already done it. But the closest I can think of is Las Vegas, and that's only alo…

Many cities in fact already have it. We call them skyways. The bridge is building to building. It is generally not on the corners, but in the middle of the block. Getting in is tricky because you need to find the elevator in the middle of the building, but once in you don't leave for a while so that isn't a big deal.

Yeah, I'm aware of what skyways are. And there's no city in which they remotely come close to covering as much walking territory as sidewalks do.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#430

Post by CydeWeys »

leetcrew wrote: post #407
CydeWeys wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize how catastrophically expensive it would be to build and maintain all of these bridges and pathways along with the four elevators per intersection? And how closed in and claustrophobic it would make the street level feel like from blocking out so much sun? If this idea were viable, someone somewhere in the world would have already done it. But the closest I can think of is Las Vegas, and that's only alo…

they actually do this in places like Minneapolis. mainly because it's just too cold to be outside for prolonged periods in the winter. my friend walks almost his entire commute without going outside.

Yeah, so that system is only 9.5 miles, and claims to be the largest such system of connected aerial sidewalks in the world. Meanwhile, NYC has 12,750 miles of sidewalks.

That's a several orders of magnitude difference between the capacity of the two systems.

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