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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#411

Post by alistairSH »

Steltek wrote: post #210
brlewis wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Boston cars are required to yield to pedestrians on turns, and many intersections have signs to remind them of this. That said, it's always a good idea to look and see what cars are actually doing, regardless of what laws and signals say.

Boston also has more "pedestrian scramble" all-way walk lights, a configuration less common in the rest of the US.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the scramble. There are a few near me, on mid-sized roads.

I have to cross a fairly wide, busy road to get to work. I wish it had a scramble with no-turn-on-red signage. That would make my commute massively safer.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#412

Post by bytematic »

ElliotM wrote: post #404
Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

FWIW The data for Milwaukee appears incorrect - the traffic fatalities are for the county of Milwaukee while the density is for the city. Recalculating density based on the land area of Milwaukee county shows 3,934 people per square mile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_County,_Wisconsin

I imagine it is quite close, the county of Milwaukee is essentially just the city. Even many of the suburbs are in surrounding counties

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#413

Post by Broken_Hippo »

rconti wrote: post #390
turk73 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Speed limits are incredibly low. I drove across Norway this summer and never saw a speed limit higher than 50mph.

To those that aren't sure: 50mph is around 80kph.

And yeah, that's gonna be a pretty standard speed limit, though some with 90-100kph are out there. Unless you meant 50kph... and in that case, it is low.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#414

Post by Mvhsz »

bytematic wrote: post #412
ElliotM wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW The data for Milwaukee appears incorrect - the traffic fatalities are for the county of Milwaukee while the density is for the city. Recalculating density based on the land area of Milwaukee county shows 3,934 people per square mile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_County,_Wisconsin

I imagine it is quite close, the county of Milwaukee is essentially just the city. Even many of the suburbs are in surrounding counties

EliottM is right, the delta in land and population between the city and county is significant. Over 900K people in the county and 241 square miles compared to 96 square miles in the city.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#415

Post by ak217 »

hadlock wrote: post #394
cactus2093 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we're good at announcing initiatives like "Vision Zero", and continuing to pretend it's a real thing even after a decade or more (in some cities) of making no material changes and traffic fatalities staying flat or even increasing.

The people running "vision zero" are spending large chunks of their money buying facebook ads telling the public about the ads they are buying at city-owned bus stops. Mayor Ed Lee of SF introduced the "Vision Zero" initiative years ago, but unfortunately died in office and the department he left behind is in zombie mode with no leadership or direction so they're buying bus stop ads reminding bus riders to look for p…

That's not true. Under London Breed, San Francisco has accelerated the rollout of safe bike lanes using the "quick build" program (https://www.sfmta.com/vision-zero-quick-build-projects). Ask any cyclist in SF - in the past 18 months the number of dedicated, curb or parking separated bike lanes, bulbouts, signals, and other bike infrastructure has jumped. There are still tons of problem areas (try biking from Bayview to the Mission) but London Breed's administration has already built more cycling infra than Ed Lee's ever did.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#416

Post by Broken_Hippo »

throwawaysea wrote: post #398
turk73 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Also need to look at travel times. Norway has low speed limits and makes driving an inconvenience in the pursuit of perfect safety records. But it takes away from being able to get where you want quickly (cities with road infrastructure that is not over-subscribed are way faster to get around than walking/biking/public transit) and on your own terms (no waiting times, room for people/cargo, etc.). The tradeoffs for a…

Driving isn't as convenient in the cities - Trondheim, at least, is very walkable. There is a tunnel under the city for quicker driving, though, and it sure is faster than the bus or walking of you are going across town. It is going to be faster in electric cars since they can use different traffic routes.

The speed limits are low, but you get used to that.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#418

Post by Broken_Hippo »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #374
bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

I've lived in different suburbs my whole life and all have had sidewalks. They don't get used as much as in cities obviously, but you still have kids walking to/from school, people walking their dogs, going on runs, etc. The only places I've seen without sidewalks would be clearly classified as "rural".

Some cities are really good at putting in sidewalks if it is a residential area. Others don't bother putting them in neighborhoods at all.

A much bigger issue is that you can't generally get to a store, across town, or to work on sidewalks.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#419

Post by stefs »

AaronM wrote: post #324
audunw wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody complained because why would you want to walk miles to the closest grocery store anyway? I've been guests at a few different suburban neighborhoods in the US. I realize that some of these are so big and remote that it really is too far to walk to anything significant, but those I visited did have grocery stores and such within a walkeable distance, but that's not always the case, and still there's not much i…

In the US it is illegal to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk in most places

that's true for many countries in europe too, but we do have a lot more bike paths and drivers are generally more considerate towards cyclists than they are in the u.s.

with my road bike (i.e. no suspension) i usually prefer the road over adjacent bike paths (which is legal in my country), as the roads are usually in better shape.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#420

Post by tomashm »

ozim wrote: post #167
ossworkerrights wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and apply to that country as the situation is out of control.

I am from Poland have not been to Norway but I live in the Netherlands. I have been to Romania for work for about two months. It is mostly driving culture, I noticed in Romania people have to get quick everywhere because of "reasons". They have a car so they feel important. Like "out of the way pesants on foot". There was a lot of bad roads, and romanian people I was working with, mostly complained about roads being…

Yes, the fines are expensive in Norway. Driving 101-105 km/h when the speed limit is 70 km/h, results in a fine of around $1200. 106 km/h or above results in loss of drivers license.
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