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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#381

Post by bluGill »

CydeWeys wrote: post #361
bluGill wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one. bridge you are right. Put in dozens such that you can go several km without going back down though and things are different.

Do you realize how catastrophically expensive it would be to build and maintain all of these bridges and pathways along with the four elevators per intersection? And how closed in and claustrophobic it would make the street level feel like from blocking out so much sun? If this idea were viable, someone somewhere in the world would have already done it. But the closest I can think of is Las Vegas, and that's only alo…

Many cities in fact already have it. We call them skyways. The bridge is building to building. It is generally not on the corners, but in the middle of the block. Getting in is tricky because you need to find the elevator in the middle of the building, but once in you don't leave for a while so that isn't a big deal.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#382

Post by cactus2093 »

Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

In the US we're good at announcing initiatives like "Vision Zero", and continuing to pretend it's a real thing even after a decade or more (in some cities) of making no material changes and traffic fatalities staying flat or even increasing.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#383

Post by bluGill »

CydeWeys wrote: post #362
bluGill wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends, is there are network of them such that you can go a few km without going outside, or is it across one road. The latter is worthless for all the reasons you mention. For dense areas (downtown) they are fairly common, office workers can go several buildings over to lunch without going outside, and things are heated in winter.

They're fairly common? Can you provide examples? The closest thing I can think of is a series of connected pedestrian tunnels that you see in some Canadian cities like Montreal and Toronto. Those primarily exist for a different reason; winter is months-long and so cold that you don't want to step foot outside at all. Pedestrian bridges don't accomplish this goal.

Des Moines IA. Minneapolis MN are two that I know of. They are fully enclosed, building to building. They exist in part because of winter, but have took on a life of their own.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#384

Post by fennecfoxen »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #291
bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

Still not sure why they don't have more pedestrian catwalks in cities directly above the roads. That's a whole lot less expensive than elevated roadways (you have to support ~200 pound pedestrians instead of 80,000 pound trucks), separates the pedestrians from the cars, and doesn't require any additional land. And then you could have second story pedestrian entrances to buildings, which already have elevators in them…

Elevated pedestrian catwalks are a recurring architectural fad. They don't tend to work out very well outside of a few specific areas, though, as pedestrians traffic is most popular in situations where pedestrians also have access to lots of street-level homes and businesses.

Consider further coverage and commentary such as

https://www.academyofurbanism.org.uk/streets-in-the-sky-the-...

https://failedarchitecture.com/the-downfall-of-londons-stree...

https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/campaigns/notopi...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#385

Post by bluGill »

mumblemumble wrote: post #310
bluGill wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sidewalks to nowhere" don't count as sidewalks. They count as decoration.

Former suburbs kid here. I lived about 4 miles from the nearest grocery store. I used the sidewalks in my area all the time. If you think that a sidewalk in a purely residential area only goes to nowhere, you spend way too much time looking at screens. Get out, meet, and spend some time with your neighbors.

if it is 4 miles to the grocery store, then you can't walk anywhere. Your ice cream will melt before you get back home. There might be a continuous sidewalk all the way, but you have better things to do with your time than walk that far.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#386

Post by jessant »

Symbiote wrote: post #357
Tiktaalik wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safer cars how? Cars are just as safe in NA where we rack up the pedestrian deaths. The two ton vehicle slamming into a pedestrian at medium speeds will probably kill them. The only way to solve this problem is to lower speeds or remove the car from the road.

Cars are less safe in North America, since they're very often SUVs, trucks etc. Those have terrible results for the pedestrian in a collision. A typical European car hitting a pedestrian at 30mph is 80% survivable. (This road safety video is 14 years old now, and since then some places in the UK have managed to introduce 20mph limits, which are even better.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvja-PA5Egc

Safer for pedestrians, not for the drivers.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#387

Post by freehunter »

cortesoft wrote: post #366
koheripbal wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will nag you even in the back?

Shit, my Tesla will nag me after I am in park and EXITING the vehicle. Yeah, I don't have my seat belt on.. because I am getting out of the car!

My car does that too. I have a narrow driveway so I find myself moving my cars around depending on which person in the house needs to go somewhere, and one of the cars will keep screaming even after it’s in park. You need to turn the engine off to make the seatbelt scream go away.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#388

Post by jablan »

turk73 wrote: post #365
Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

> The US standard of living is far higher.

?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#389

Post by at-fates-hands »

For some context:

The Oslo city center is almost entirely car-free after eliminating parking spots and banning cars on certain streets. The Norwegian capital finished at the beginning of this year, removing the last of approximately 750 street-side parking spots within the city center and replacing them with bike lanes, benches, greenery and parks.

With nowhere to park in the city center, there are essentially no cars in downtown Oslo. A few exceptions are made for delivery vehicles during specific hours, spaces for EVs to charge, people with disabilities, and of course emergency vehicles. Parking garages outside the center are available to the public, with 9,000 available spaces, and drivers are diverted via traffic restrictions to use ring roads to bypass the city.

Oslo Is (Almost) Car-Free — And Likes It That Way (March 2019): https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/05/oslo-is-almost-car-free...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#390

Post by rconti »

turk73 wrote: post #365
Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Speed limits are incredibly low. I drove across Norway this summer and never saw a speed limit higher than 50mph.
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