Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#281

Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #263

bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

> suburbs don't have sidewalks Plenty of suburbs have sidewalks.

I grew up in suburbs that did not have a consistent network of sidewalks. Some existed but you really need 100% of roads to have one or you're suddenly walking 2 miles extra to get around the missing link. Nobody complained because why would you want to walk miles to the closest grocery store anyway?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#282

Post by stoolpigeon » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

punnerud wrote: post #272

I am living in Oslo and just came driving from the city center now, not strange when it is almost impossible to drive around there, lot of light regulation (no turn right on red as in US). Even with socioeconomic value on human life in the $10M range I don’t think it is economically beneficial to the city center. The ‘no children died’ in 2019 is something else and a really good thing!

No right on red is the default here in Hungary - I assumed it was the norm for much ( most? ) of Europe.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#283

Post by surfmike » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

punnerud wrote: post #272

I am living in Oslo and just came driving from the city center now, not strange when it is almost impossible to drive around there, lot of light regulation (no turn right on red as in US). Even with socioeconomic value on human life in the $10M range I don’t think it is economically beneficial to the city center. The ‘no children died’ in 2019 is something else and a really good thing!

Oslo city center is doing great economically, and lots of good connections to there with public transit for commuters. Also despite tolls etc. there is bad commuter time traffic and downtown parking shortages, not clear what extra economic benefit would arise from adding more cars to the roads.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#284

Post by thrower123 » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #114

vegardx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Oslo at least, the crosswalks (usually) have lights if there's an intersection, and since there are no laws against crossing on red you are free to do so, as long as you don't create any dangerous situations. I'd argue that the lights are not to improve traffic flow, but to signal pedestrians that it's safe to cross, something sighted, young or otherwise healthy people often take for granted by just looking both w…

In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.

In the US, you are generally safer crossing the street anywhere other than where there are painted crosswalks. They are always in terrible locations where there is guaranteed to be traffic and typically sight lines are poor.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#285

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #119

alistairSH wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.

Seems like a cultural problem, not a crosswalk light problem. Most people (myself included) automatically slow down when driving into a crosswalk. Our intersections are usually fairly small, so it's hard to build up any speed, even if you wanted to.

It's both.

Right-on-red is a huge problem in areas where pedestrians want to cross. If memory serves, the UK does not allow turns on red. That makes more sense to me.

On my walk to work, I have to cross one 8-lane suburban street. 4 thru lanes, plus several turn lanes in each direction. The radius of the corners is smooth. Stop lines are far back from the actual apex of the corner. So, cars can easily roll through corners at 40mph. They do this when I have a walk signal because they either have their own green, or they're turning on red and only looking for oncoming traffic (to their left) and not for pedestrians (to their right).

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#286

Post by surfmike » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

gombosg wrote: post #152

alkonaut wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating r…

Just one comment, large cars are not necessarily safer, and small cars can be safe, too. SUVs are not only notorious for their awful gas mileage but also how unsafe they can be for the pedestrian or other car they hit if they do.

Assuming they’re built with the same safety technologies, larger cars are absolutely safer. https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#287

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #263

bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

> suburbs don't have sidewalks Plenty of suburbs have sidewalks.

"Sidewalks to nowhere" don't count as sidewalks. They count as decoration.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#288

Post by SECProto » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #264

aurbano wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that in order to have a good discussion it would help if you could explain why public transport is slower in your case. Is the route longer because there isn't a line that goes straight from your home to your workplace? Is it because there aren't a lot of trains, so they take too long to arrive? Otherwise it's hard to tell what the problem with public transport in your city. I live in London for instance, whe…

Public transit is only faster than cars when they have an "unfair" advantage. I'm guessing (I haven't been there) by London zone 1-2 you means trips where the subway (tube you call it?) gets transit out of the way. Other useful "unfair" advantage are trains - because they cannot stop - preempt traffic, and there are also transit only lanes where cars are not allowed. Anytime transit doesn't get some advantage over tr…

In a city where the availability of land is a major limiting factor, you could argue that cars are the ones getting an "unfair advantage" - 8 square meters of city surface permanently dedicated to moving oneself around is clearly an inequitable use of space.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#289

Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #71

glutamate wrote: post #31

Good to see all that oil revenue being used to protect Norwegians, shame about the climate change.

Is Norway responsible for the emissions? It's the buyers who decide to burn the oil rather than use it to produce other stuff.

Like what, press billions of vinyl records?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#290

Post by admax88q » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

keldaris wrote: post #260

glofish wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to "impose" their views? Do you mean that car ownership is disincentivized by making people bear more of the cost of their car ownership?

No, the two questions you ask have very little to do with each other. There's a perfectly reasonable debate to be had about the externalities of different modes of transportation, but that is not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to a relatively small (but very vocal) segment of almost uniformly young and able bodied city dwellers with a fairly narrow and very strongly held set of views about what city life should…

Lol. Yeah it's those damn millenials that are ruining public debate again.

There's is an equally loud segment of older car drivers who complain about the so called "war on cars" everytime somebody wants an alternative to driving.