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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#91
post #71

Good to see all that oil revenue being used to protect Norwegians, shame about the climate change.

Is Norway responsible for the emissions? It's the buyers who decide to burn the oil rather than use it to produce other stuff.

You can use the same argument to sell guns to 8 year old. Do you?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#92
post #80
post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

Do trains stop for pedestrians crossing the tracks where you’re from? That sounds very inefficient.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#93
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

All other vehicles have lights for them, either for them to stop or have other vehicles stop for them (in the case of trains) It's natural that a locking mechanism would evolve for all cases. It's not a matter of being a car-centric monster, it's a matter of organizing traffic. > Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk Not all pedestrians cross in a crosswalk or look at what they'r…

> Sure, let me stop abruptly for the pedestrian crossing right in front of me. Or in some situations pedestrians are always crossing (city-center)

This is the price you pay for deciding to drive a car in a city. If you choose a less lethal (to others) form of transportation, you'll have to yield less frequently.

The general principle of yielding downward (in terms of size of the conveyance) is hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years old, and is more sensible today than ever.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#94
post #9

That's impressive. Even more impressive is that the yearly death toll has been 10 or below since around 2005. Is it because people/teens are now staying indoors more due to the internet or is it due to a policy change or is it technological improvements in cars? I don't speak norwegian so I can't read the linked article.

It seems they almost eliminated (not completely) the cars from the city: https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948/what-happened-when-oslo...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#95
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not different at all. Why would Norwegians be different from other humans? I can confirm that Swedes and danes do this too. And being of croatian descent I can confirm they do it there too. It's not a cultural thing, it's a human thing to be impatient. If anything it speaks of the flow of traffic. Here in Sweden you can often safely cross the street because the entire length of the street has lights that work…

_It's not a cultural thing, it's a human thing to be impatient._ True, but certain cultures see impatience as much worse flaw than other cultures leading to significant cultural differences in, say, crossing roads. Seriously, if you ever visit Japan it will seem strange but people do almost always wait for the light.

I think this is partly is an illusion created by the wider roads. Longer jaywalking distance discourages jaywalking. For example in the nordics wide roads are uncommon so jaywalking becomes more common and safe.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#96
post #80
post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

In Oslo at least, the crosswalks (usually) have lights if there's an intersection, and since there are no laws against crossing on red you are free to do so, as long as you don't create any dangerous situations.

I'd argue that the lights are not to improve traffic flow, but to signal pedestrians that it's safe to cross, something sighted, young or otherwise healthy people often take for granted by just looking both ways before crossing.

So no - the lights aren't only to improve traffic. The dynamic changes when there are no jaywalking laws.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

Do trains stop for pedestrians crossing the tracks where you’re from? That sounds very inefficient.

Where there are no lights, pedestrians have right of way in Canada. Even though forcing a stop on the gasoline powered vehicle with much more momentum is strictly less efficient than making the pedestrian wait, it stuck as an arrangement, that made for a more enjoyable and relaxing city experience.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#98
post #80
post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

I am not sure what you mean with this effectiveness. I live in Prague, the city with (what they say) one of the best public transport systems in the world, and yet, going to my workplace is 45 minutes by public transport and 15 minutes by car. Even though I live close to a subway and tram station, and the workplace is right in the city center, car still wins - where is the effectiveness you're talking about? This is the case for my past 3 workplaces and 2 homes. Sorry but my time is more valuable than waiting an hour per day just because.

Before you say that I can read or listen to music on the way in public transport, I listen to audiobooks in the car, and the trams are lately so packed that for me it's especially hard to not puke because of the terrible air (and sometimes smelly people, luckily not that much in winter) there, sadly I would puke right into someone's face. Even though there is a lot of traffic which slows my car down, I am still in comfort. I'd rather sit 45 minutes in a car listening to wonderful music than be pushed inside a can full of people for the same time, and given the traffic, I am not the only one thinking the same.

First improve public transport, make it at least a tiny bit comfortable, then hate cars, not the other way around, that just won't work.

(let the downvotes rain... What did I expect, a discussion? Lol)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#99
post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

I live in Copenhagen and bicycle/walk daily, and I see people crossing when it's red at every single intersection. I also see bikes going back and forth on pedestrian lanes.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All other vehicles have lights for them, either for them to stop or have other vehicles stop for them (in the case of trains) It's natural that a locking mechanism would evolve for all cases. It's not a matter of being a car-centric monster, it's a matter of organizing traffic. > Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk Not all pedestrians cross in a crosswalk or look at what they'r…

> Sure, let me stop abruptly for the pedestrian crossing right in front of me. Or in some situations pedestrians are always crossing (city-center) This is the price you pay for deciding to drive a car in a city. If you choose a less lethal (to others) form of transportation, you'll have to yield less frequently. The general principle of yielding downward (in terms of size of the conveyance) is hundreds, perhaps thous…

The problem is not yielding, the problem is yielding with too short of a notice to people who think cars have zero inertia.

Physics doesn't care who's right or wrong.

Edit: I'm not talking about crosswalks, I'm talking about people crossing outside of them

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