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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#81

Post by kmlx »

adriang133 wrote: post #51
kmlx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

You have to stop at crossings yes, and it makes sense. Usually when there's a red light in one direction, the one perpendicular to it will have a green light. Dublin is similar to the UK as far as I could tell, and honestly it felt like one of the worst design of traffic lights ever. Waiting for 2-3 minutes on a red light is pretty common, and green only lasts for 20-30 seconds. It's an absolute disaster for pedestri…

if you combine the red light for pedestrians with no fine for jaywalking if you don't cause issues, then the british/irish model starts to make sense :)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#82

Post by agurk »

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

In Copenhagen there's a nuance that you're socially expected to wait at marked pedestrian crossings until they're green, but it's ok to cross the road yourself at points where there's no marked crossing (and therefore no lights). People will do this 20m from a marked crossing too.

This extends to people waiting in the middle of the road between traffic flows (usually on wider roads) which in my experience is only common behaviour in countries where jaywalking is not seen as a problem.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#83

Post by spiffistan »

Sharlin wrote: post #45
gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

I think it’s explicitly permitted by law in Sweden at least. It’s illegal in Finland (where I’m from), in theory at least, and I do think that should change. Pedestrian red light should mean ”may cross but must yield to other traffic”, ie. equivalent to the yield sign for vehicles.

It is explicitly permitted[1] in Norwegian law as well -- the law states that you may cross on a red light if it's not hindering any vehicle or dangerous.

[1] https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2005-10-07-1219/KAP...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#84

Post by vintermann »

praptak wrote: post #71
glutamate wrote: post #31

Good to see all that oil revenue being used to protect Norwegians, shame about the climate change.

Is Norway responsible for the emissions? It's the buyers who decide to burn the oil rather than use it to produce other stuff.

If the buyer doesn't want it, Norway sets down the price until someone does. We make sure every barrel pumped is burned eventually.

In the end, we have to leave carbon in the ground. Even with increasingly dubious prospects for profitability, and increasing environmental risks (from oil extradition in the far north), Norwegian governments have not been willing to leave any oil in the ground.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#85

Post by Reason077 »

kmlx wrote: post #30
gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

”in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.”

3-phase signalled intersections (where pedestrians get a green signal to cross in all directions) are a relatively new development in the UK. They’re certainly common in London but I’d be very surprised if they’re rolled out to all intersections the UK.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#87

Post by Sharlin »

spiffistan wrote: post #83
Sharlin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s explicitly permitted by law in Sweden at least. It’s illegal in Finland (where I’m from), in theory at least, and I do think that should change. Pedestrian red light should mean ”may cross but must yield to other traffic”, ie. equivalent to the yield sign for vehicles.

It is explicitly permitted[1] in Norwegian law as well -- the law states that you may cross on a red light if it's not hindering any vehicle or dangerous. [1] https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2005-10-07-1219/KAP...

Yeah, I thought so but wasn’t sure.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#88

Post by AdrianB1 »

mongol wrote: post #2

That is amazing. It is easy to imagine that safer cars have contributed most to this. But there are so many other factors.. emergency response, alcohol, road quality, weather... I wonder how it would break down, if it was possible to measure it all.

It explains in another article linked in a comment: Oslo is virtually car-free. Heaving deadly accidents between cyclists and pedestrians is possible, but very rare, so the accidents disappeared because the main actor (cars) disappeared. It sounds obvious - if you want to eliminate car accidents, eliminate cars, this is what they did.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#89

Post by raverbashing »

yason wrote: post #80
gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

All other vehicles have lights for them, either for them to stop or have other vehicles stop for them (in the case of trains)

It's natural that a locking mechanism would evolve for all cases. It's not a matter of being a car-centric monster, it's a matter of organizing traffic.

> Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk

Not all pedestrians cross in a crosswalk or look at what they're doing when they cross. Sure, let me stop abruptly for the pedestrian crossing right in front of me. Or in some situations pedestrians are always crossing (city-center)

This works (mostly) for slow streets or very low pedestrian traffic (and car) ones.

> hus, it is no wonder that any sensible person wouldn't cross the street on red if there are no cars coming.

Completely agree

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#90

Post by [deleted] »

Reason077 wrote: post #85
kmlx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

”in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.” 3-phase signalled intersections (where pedestrians get a green signal to cross in all directions) are a relatively new development in the UK. They’re certainly common in London but I’d be very surprised if they’re rolled out to all intersections the UK.

[deleted]
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