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Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

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Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#131

Post by DraftDodger67 »

spodek wrote: post #128
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy Global warming is important, but only one environmental problem, so important to consider here, but not the only environmental issue. Contributing to every environmental issue, including this one, is overpopulation. Humans have altered every continent, reducing biodiversity, introducing species that don't handle local climates as well, or too well and displace existing ones,…

The biggest driver of Australia's increased emissions is the increasing population: https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/greenhouse-gas-emis... Under current immigration settings Australia will reach 40 million people by 2050.

With zero net overseas migration, the population would stabilise at 27 million then fall slightly. This is the most important change that could be made to assist the Australian environment, but sadly discussing immigration is completely disallowed in mainstream Australian media.

There is no need to limit birthrates - they are already sub-replacement in Australia. Just cut immigration.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#133

Post by polotics »

Brakenshire wrote: post #89
Scarblac wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the costs of decarbonising vs rebuilding isn't quite the right comparison though (though it'll be psychologically important). It's not as if climate change would be reverted or even stop if we stopped burning fossil fuel now. There is a lag on the effect, and the situation would still be getting worse for a century or so. The comparison is between all the extra future damage of burning even more than we alr…

Could you say that the dipole effect is giving an advanced preview of what the shifting baseline of global warming will deliver every year in a decade or two?

Oxides are very stable, Carbone dioxide is no exception, so... https://jancovici.com/en/climate-change/ghg-and-carbon-cycle...

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#134

Post by deepersprout »

spodek wrote: post #128
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy Global warming is important, but only one environmental problem, so important to consider here, but not the only environmental issue. Contributing to every environmental issue, including this one, is overpopulation. Humans have altered every continent, reducing biodiversity, introducing species that don't handle local climates as well, or too well and displace existing ones,…

> Contributing to every environmental issue, including this one, is overpopulation.

Citation needed. Why is 7.7 billion people a problem? IMHO earth as it is today can accommodate 9 or 10 billion people without problems. (And like you, I have no citation as well.)

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#135

Post by perilunar »

spodek wrote: post #128
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy Global warming is important, but only one environmental problem, so important to consider here, but not the only environmental issue. Contributing to every environmental issue, including this one, is overpopulation. Humans have altered every continent, reducing biodiversity, introducing species that don't handle local climates as well, or too well and displace existing ones,…

> the situation in Australia looks related to huge cities and lots of farms supporting a much larger human population than had ever lived there reducing biodiversity and resilience to fire,

Australia is one of the most sparsely populated countries on the planet. And the land that is burning is (relatively undisturbed) native forest, not farmland or ‘huge’ (?) cities.

i.e. very to do with overpopulation.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#136

Post by ericmay »

spodek wrote: post #128
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy Global warming is important, but only one environmental problem, so important to consider here, but not the only environmental issue. Contributing to every environmental issue, including this one, is overpopulation. Humans have altered every continent, reducing biodiversity, introducing species that don't handle local climates as well, or too well and displace existing ones,…

I completely agree. It’s taboo to even discuss it, and we have a developed a “technology will come save us” cult around solving these problems that I don’t think is healthy. The infrastructure we have doesn’t scale well to this many people.

I get sad when I’m in a parking lot and I see a flock of Geese walking around the empty parking lot trying to dodge traffic. To me it really encapsulates the overall issue. Nobody thinks twice about it.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#137

Post by pjc50 »

roenxi wrote: post #111
Scarblac wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the costs of decarbonising vs rebuilding isn't quite the right comparison though (though it'll be psychologically important). It's not as if climate change would be reverted or even stop if we stopped burning fossil fuel now. There is a lag on the effect, and the situation would still be getting worse for a century or so. The comparison is between all the extra future damage of burning even more than we alr…

If we could magically put a negative in front of Australia's CO2 emissions it would change nothing [0]. Even if we stopped selling coal and absorbed that amount of CO2 instead - and assume that nobody else mines coal to meet the market's demand - we would still easily see 90% of the worlds emissions at play. Australia is a moderate player in global terms, but decarbonising is literally a symbolic gesture with real ne…

Doing so on your own? No, doesn't make much of a difference. But in this case the symbolic gesture is actually important for the sake of pressuring other countries. Otherwise you get "Why should we in China decarbonise when Australia won't?"

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#138

Post by rs23296008n1 »

sumedh wrote: post #99
mceoin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can only speak from my personal circles but the current bushfires aren't having a direct impact on personal responsibility (those who were interested were already interested; those that weren't still aren't). We just had a political cycle where the Labor party lost on (among many reasons) a more climate-change focused agenda in the federal election, so we won't know for another three years if there is any any voter b…

> so we won't know for another three years if there is any any voter backlash Labour will say your taxes will increase, liberals will promise more tax cuts and everyone will vote for Liberal again.

Not so much in Cobargo. They were somewhat less than enthusiastic over the Prime Bureaucrat's recent visit.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#139

Post by jrziviani »

truculent wrote: post #106
jrziviani wrote: post #104

Why aren't Europe, Greta, Hollywood artists screaming their head off just like they did at Brazil/Amazon Forest on June?

They are though? It’s even being reported in TIME...

Not even close to the noise made here: Macron (and Hollywood artists) lying about "world lung", Europeans threatening us with economic sanctions, fake news everywhere (old pictures, fake pictures (from other places), animals that don't even exist in Amazon...

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#140

Post by perfunctory »

xoa wrote: post #120
perfunctory wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> election voting choices Unfortunately, I don't believe voting one way or another will make much difference. One party might be slightly better than another, but ultimately none will dare to implement sufficient measures. Climate problem will have to be solved outside of party politics. We need something akin to civil rights movement. On the global scale.

> Unfortunately, I don't believe voting one way or another will make much difference. One party might be slightly better than another, but ultimately none will dare to implement sufficient measures. Then you are simply giving up on the whole thing? Because there is no other way to make much difference. If the current party platforms aren't sufficient, then those who care must first work to change those too. Become pa…

> The civil rights movement had organized leadership that used the protests to mobilize voters, to gain public interest and recognition, etc., all with the ultimate aim of changing politicians/parties

I was trying to say more or less the same, but maybe a bit too terse. [edit: with the qualification that I believe that protests and civil disobedience are essential means in "changing politicians/parties"]

What I was trying to say is that passive voting for the currently available options is not enough. People need to get off their couches and get actively involved in a climate movement and shift the overton window.

> Conversely, consider all sorts of modern disorganized protests, no matter the size.

Which ones do you have in mind specifically?

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