Live data from Hacker News

Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

time.com

111–120 of 215 posts

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#111
post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

Comparing the costs of decarbonising vs rebuilding isn't quite the right comparison though (though it'll be psychologically important). It's not as if climate change would be reverted or even stop if we stopped burning fossil fuel now. There is a lag on the effect, and the situation would still be getting worse for a century or so. The comparison is between all the extra future damage of burning even more than we alr…

If we could magically put a negative in front of Australia's CO2 emissions it would change nothing [0]. Even if we stopped selling coal and absorbed that amount of CO2 instead - and assume that nobody else mines coal to meet the market's demand - we would still easily see 90% of the worlds emissions at play.

Australia is a moderate player in global terms, but decarbonising is literally a symbolic gesture with real negative consequences. The only response that makes any sense is to focus on better bushfire prevention methods.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> election voting choices Unfortunately, I don't believe voting one way or another will make much difference. One party might be slightly better than another, but ultimately none will dare to implement sufficient measures. Climate problem will have to be solved outside of party politics. We need something akin to civil rights movement. On the global scale.

> We need something akin to civil rights movement. On the global scale. We also need someone other than Greta as the face of it. While she does a great job, she's often dismissed due to her age and the US president has even publicly called her retarded in the literal sense.

Greta is 16. A 16 year old brain is literally not fully developed.

A global movement should be able to muster a better spokesperson than a child. No matter how earnest and scared a child may be, it is still a mistake to make major policy decisions on their say-so.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#113
"Throw another shrimp on the barbie", he said. "No worries, mate. It'll be fine", he said...

FYI - I'm an Aussie born and bred, and part of our culture is to laugh at ourselves, even during the hard times. That's how Australians stay so resilient through hardship.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#114
post #80

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

Can only speak from my personal circles but the current bushfires aren't having a direct impact on personal responsibility (those who were interested were already interested; those that weren't still aren't). We just had a political cycle where the Labor party lost on (among many reasons) a more climate-change focused agenda in the federal election, so we won't know for another three years if there is any any voter b…

> Sydney has been smog filled for the last month.

Not smog, just plain smoke.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#115
post #84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of Australia's coal is burned in China. Germany is a literal "black spot" in that the coal industry still has political muscle there, despite Germany's otherwise relatively strong (but still very much minority) green movement.

They [Germany] got rid of their environmentally friendly nuclear reactors in favour of burning more coal after Fukishima. They're doing a bit of solar but are burning ever more and more coal.

Germany is burning LESS coal. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/coal-consumption-per-capi...

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#116
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the costs of decarbonising vs rebuilding isn't quite the right comparison though (though it'll be psychologically important). It's not as if climate change would be reverted or even stop if we stopped burning fossil fuel now. There is a lag on the effect, and the situation would still be getting worse for a century or so. The comparison is between all the extra future damage of burning even more than we alr…

If we could magically put a negative in front of Australia's CO2 emissions it would change nothing [0]. Even if we stopped selling coal and absorbed that amount of CO2 instead - and assume that nobody else mines coal to meet the market's demand - we would still easily see 90% of the worlds emissions at play. Australia is a moderate player in global terms, but decarbonising is literally a symbolic gesture with real ne…

Australia is also actively not supporting local research and development into renewable energy technologies. Even if I bought the whole "we're only a small contributor to the problem, so it's not really our problem" argument (which I obviously don't), it'd be nice if we at least supported research and development that could actually make money as opposed to holding to the hard line that "anthropogenic climate change is a myth and therefore any effort to reduce it deserves no support".

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#117
post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

P.S. Adelaide, South Australia forecast for 42 degrees Celsius tomorrow, but a cool change coming the following day.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#118
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the costs of decarbonising vs rebuilding isn't quite the right comparison though (though it'll be psychologically important). It's not as if climate change would be reverted or even stop if we stopped burning fossil fuel now. There is a lag on the effect, and the situation would still be getting worse for a century or so. The comparison is between all the extra future damage of burning even more than we alr…

If we could magically put a negative in front of Australia's CO2 emissions it would change nothing [0]. Even if we stopped selling coal and absorbed that amount of CO2 instead - and assume that nobody else mines coal to meet the market's demand - we would still easily see 90% of the worlds emissions at play. Australia is a moderate player in global terms, but decarbonising is literally a symbolic gesture with real ne…

The same is true for everyone else too. Yet still everyone must decarbonize or eventually face even worse consequences then bushfires, tragedy of the commons or not.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#119
post #84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of Australia's coal is burned in China. Germany is a literal "black spot" in that the coal industry still has political muscle there, despite Germany's otherwise relatively strong (but still very much minority) green movement.

They [Germany] got rid of their environmentally friendly nuclear reactors in favour of burning more coal after Fukishima. They're doing a bit of solar but are burning ever more and more coal.

[Germans] are burning ever more and more coal

We've missed our reduction goals, but reducton did happen (about 20% over the last 15 years, and the decrease has even been monotonic since 2013).

I keep having to correct this on hackernews specifically. I have to wonder, is there some sort of concerted effort to lie about this?

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#120

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

> election voting choices Unfortunately, I don't believe voting one way or another will make much difference. One party might be slightly better than another, but ultimately none will dare to implement sufficient measures. Climate problem will have to be solved outside of party politics. We need something akin to civil rights movement. On the global scale.

>Unfortunately, I don't believe voting one way or another will make much difference. One party might be slightly better than another, but ultimately none will dare to implement sufficient measures.

Then you are simply giving up on the whole thing? Because there is no other way to make much difference. If the current party platforms aren't sufficient, then those who care must first work to change those too. Become party members, work to select delegates that will then change it, etc. Same as any other democracy, regardless of details (in the US "party" (coalition) platforms and choices are determined by primaries before the country decides which one will assume government).

>Climate problem will have to be solved outside of party politics. We need something akin to civil rights movement. On the global scale.

It can't emphasized enough how completely, utterly wrong this is. Solving collective action problems requires coordinated use of power, which by definition is politics. Regardless of how the politics gets changed, it still will ultimately depend on politics. It's not some dirty word or concept, it's a descriptive/truism, when you work to get groups of humans to do something you're doing politics. It is our great good fortune, built on a mountain of blood a treasure, that so many of us live in democracies where it is so easy relative to history to work for radical political change through parties and government structures.

You mention the civil rights movement, but that ONLY WORKED THROUGH POLITICS. There seems to have been a huge forgetting in modern times that protest movements and the like are only means to a political end, not constructive in and of themselves. The civil rights movement had organized leadership that used the protests to mobilize voters, to gain public interest and recognition, etc., all with the ultimate aim of changing politicians/parties and actually getting actual for real legislation passed. They worked to the extent they translated into votes and in turn into actual power.

Conversely, consider all sorts of modern disorganized protests, no matter the size. It's perfectly possible to spend enormous amounts of time, effort, and resources and accomplish absolutely nothing whatsoever. It's a very dangerous and corrosive form of virtue signaling, and can actively harm progress because it burns people's limited capital to no useful end. And that in turn helps further breed disengagement, because people feel "they did something" "yet nothing happened". But "doing something" doesn't mean it's actually useful.

Post reply on HN