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Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

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Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#71

Post by Scarblac »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #14
seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

What do you expect them to actually do? The entire CO2 output of Australia could drop to zero with negligible effect on climate change.

Australia actually mines a lot of coal and exports it. It has more power to do something than most.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#72

Post by fs2 »

It's sad to see how these fires are automatically linked to climate change. Until the mid 2000's Australia burned down small patches of forests to prevent large disasters like these we have now. But that changed when burning down forests (mind you to prevent larger forest fires in the future) were deemed too bad for the environment.

So now the policies and fire prevention techniques changed (for the worse) and exactly what many firefighters predicted has happened: mass fires covering the east coast. It doesn't matter how much the climate changed when the whole part about prevention has been screwed up.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#73

Post by adrianN »

voldacar wrote: post #69
maddog3356 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph? Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. With no good historical evidence, th…

Could you repost your original post (now flagged) so I and others can see your argument?

In your HN account setting, activate "showdead" to see flagged comments.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#74

Post by benjaminsuch »

kmlx wrote: post #60
benjaminsuch wrote: post #57

Excuse my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what makes it so difficult to extinguish the fire? (This question is not meant to be an ass) I tried to google it, but couldn't find a proper answer. I'm just really curious.

you've got to understand australia is huge, as big as the united states. so when you've got fires as big as european nations, it's impossible to extinguish, even contain.

Okay I get that, but how do they battle it? What is the plan? Where do they start?

Are they just trying to prevent the spread and wait till the fire kills itself?

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#75

Post by seszett »

maddog3356 wrote: post #52
braythwayt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.” Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.” Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.” Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...” And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.” This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN.…

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph? Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. With no good historical evidence, th…

> The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie.

I don't know what graph you are talking about, but the IPCC reports are not based on a random graph from a movie, and the arguments and evidence they present are vastly more credible than your comment.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#76

Post by braythwayt »

maddog3356 wrote: post #52
braythwayt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.” Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.” Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.” Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...” And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.” This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN.…

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph? Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. With no good historical evidence, th…

I was not, and am not, engaging you on the subject of whether humans contribute to climate change.

My point was entirely around a particular fallacy in your argument, and the tone. My goal was not to suggest you are wrong, but to suggest that both you and HN would benefit from a different style of discussion.

If you would like some solace, here’s something: A fallacious argument does not prove its point, but equally, a fallacious argument does not disprove its point either. So when someone points out a fallacy in your argument, do not take it as saying you are wrong. They are only saying that the particular argument you are using is not logically persuasive.

Having made my points, I do not need another turn. Carry on as you will.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#77

Post by fhars »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #62
benjaminsuch wrote: post #57

Excuse my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what makes it so difficult to extinguish the fire? (This question is not meant to be an ass) I tried to google it, but couldn't find a proper answer. I'm just really curious.

It's not like a barbecue fire that can be controlled with a garden hose. As someone else in this thread has mentioned, one of the fire fronts is 180km wide. Edit: 180km perimeter I think the article says that one of the fires has burnt an area the size of the state of Rhode Island. https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/11838160-3x2-460x307.jpg https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/11834342-3x2-460x307.jpg https://www.google.…

And that is just one fire. The total area burnt in New South Wales alone was almost nine times larger than Rhode Island by 9 December. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-18/bushfires-burn-area-b...

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#78

Post by pxi »

throwaway3CC9 wrote: post #6
seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

Nothing. A fire is not evidence of climate change any more than an absence of fire is evidence against.

Agreed - a single fire doesn't mean squat. Fires breaking out all over like an alien invasion mean the climate has already changed: https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#79

Post by pjc50 »

nomercy400 wrote: post #54
desdiv wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia produced 19.6 tonnes of coal _per person_ in 2018. That's the highest in the world. I don't think it's in any position to be pointing fingers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coal_prod... 481.3 million tonnes of coal / 24.6 million people

It's a bit strange to use the population density of Australia to make a point, as the population density of Australia is one of the lowest in the world (3). You're basically saying we should tackle Australia's 481 before China's 3523 or India's 716 or US' 702. Maybe we should tackle China first, as it is producing 45% of the world's coal, compared to 6% of Australia. Now if you were to say that Australia is the 5th b…

Much of Australia's coal is burned in China.

Germany is a literal "black spot" in that the coal industry still has political muscle there, despite Germany's otherwise relatively strong (but still very much minority) green movement.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#80

Post by mceoin »

seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

Can only speak from my personal circles but the current bushfires aren't having a direct impact on personal responsibility (those who were interested were already interested; those that weren't still aren't).

We just had a political cycle where the Labor party lost on (among many reasons) a more climate-change focused agenda in the federal election, so we won't know for another three years if there is any any voter backlash. Additionally, parliament is not in session and the major parties are currently focused on crisis response (instead of attacking each other), so the political football has yet to truly begin.

Aside from the considerable pain and hardship for these local communities and the potential increase in politicization of environmental issues, the tourism sector is being obviously effected as you simply can't drive to many parts of New South Wales right now, tourists are being asked to leave many areas, and Sydney has been smog filled for the last month.

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