Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia • Hacker News Board

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#41

Post by anthony_doan » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:53 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #13

throwaway3CC9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. A fire is not evidence of climate change any more than an absence of fire is evidence against.

Large areas have burned in the Queensland fires which are rainforests and usually too wet to burn. A combination of unprecedented drought and record high temperatures over the past few years have dried these areas out sufficiently to sustain huge fires. But that’s just local observation and means nothing in terms of climate change, right? Edit: Clearly unrelated. https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-02/2019-was-aus…

In God We Trust, All Others Must Have Data - W. Edwards Deming (Statistician)

I dislike it when people make statement without data which leads to politic. You have provided an article which contain data that support climate change may cause this fire.

I wish more people are like you.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#42

Post by desdiv » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:54 AM UTC

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #14

seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

What do you expect them to actually do? The entire CO2 output of Australia could drop to zero with negligible effect on climate change.

Australia produced 19.6 tonnes of coal _per person_ in 2018. That's the highest in the world. I don't think it's in any position to be pointing fingers.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coal_prod...

481.3 million tonnes of coal / 24.6 million people

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#43

Post by maddog3356 » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

maddog3356 wrote: post #40

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

Some anonymous viewers voted down this post.

This post was very carefully written by a STEM field Ph.D. from a world class research university and is solid science and not politics.

If you have a rational argument, then make it.

Else it appears that HN has some dedicated climate alarmists who attack anything that questions their orthodoxy. Such behavior is political and against the Hacker News rules.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#44

Post by pan69 » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

throwaway3CC9 wrote: post #6

seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

Nothing. A fire is not evidence of climate change any more than an absence of fire is evidence against.

Australia has been in a drought for the past decade which is caused by the changing climate.

Yes, if you isolate this fire season then the fires themselves will look as no evidence of climate change. But the fact the everything is as dry as fuck when its not supposed to be dry as fuck...

In northern Queensland we have rain forests. The fringes of those rain forests are burning, because they're dry as fuck.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/extent-of-fire-damage...

Can you please open your mind?

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#45

Post by BLKNSLVR » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

maddog3356 wrote: post #43

maddog3356 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

Some anonymous viewers voted down this post. This post was very carefully written by a STEM field Ph.D. from a world class research university and is solid science and not politics. If you have a rational argument, then make it. Else it appears that HN has some dedicated climate alarmists who attack anything that questions their orthodoxy. Such behavior is political and against the Hacker News rules.

What was the consensus percentage amongst climate scientists that human activity was causing the changing climate? 90+%

But thanks for your single example of a counter viewpoint.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#46

Post by braythwayt » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

maddog3356 wrote: post #40

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.”

Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.”

Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.”

Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...”

And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.”

This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN. Doubly so for a topic where vast sums of money are to be made by oiligarchs if we delay doing anything about fossil fuels.

That does not, in and of itself, invalidate any particular criticism. But it could explain why a throwaway account uses questionable rhetoric.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#47

Post by phs318u » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #14

seanwilson wrote: post #2

If you live in Australia, what is this doing in terms of changing what people think and do about climate change? Is it motivating personal changes in diet, traveling and election voting choices? If this nightmare scenario isn't enough to push people into taking action, what will?

What do you expect them to actually do? The entire CO2 output of Australia could drop to zero with negligible effect on climate change.

Australia did not fight with the Allies against the Axis powers in WWII because our contribution would make a difference either way. We fought because it was the right thing to do. And in the cause of this global emergency we chose to contribute our fair share and to back our principled beliefs with principled actions.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#48

Post by braythwayt » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

maddog3356 wrote: post #43

maddog3356 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

Some anonymous viewers voted down this post. This post was very carefully written by a STEM field Ph.D. from a world class research university and is solid science and not politics. If you have a rational argument, then make it. Else it appears that HN has some dedicated climate alarmists who attack anything that questions their orthodoxy. Such behavior is political and against the Hacker News rules.

You have a new account, and complain about “anonymous viewers.” Hello, irony. Suggestion: if you are new here, read the posting guidelines and learn community norms.

One of which is, don’t complain about downvotes. Everyone gets to choose how to vote, and neither you nor I are allowed to tell them that they shouldn’t downvote our comments.

I’ve been here for a decade or so, I get downvoted into the negatives sometimes. It’s how HN works.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#49

Post by phs318u » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #20

duk3luk3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you comparing Australia's electricity to to call it cheap?

Our wholesale power prices are actually quite low. Residential power is expensive because rooftop solar is putting the economics of maintaining the grid into a death spiral.

Please support your claim with some evidence. I worked in the contestable electricity distribution business for 8 years from 2001 to 2009 and I can assure that your claim is complete bollocks.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#50

Post by Tehdasi » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:04 AM UTC

raaaaraaaa2 wrote: post #38

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #5

As a long term Australian, this is categorically the worst fire season Australia has experienced. Summer in Australia always comes with one or two big fires in at-risk rural areas over the months from December to February. Queensland and New South Wales were burning heavily by early December. And now Victoria and South Australia have joined in as well and we're still only just into the second month of three. It's unp…

I would expect that intensive large fires will destroy all forests in affected areas... So next season will be 'fine' (= no trees at all).

Not quite, there will be less fuel, but not less trees. The bushland of Australia has had regular fires baked into it's ecosystem, so the plant species all have coping mechanisms to deal with fire. A good example is are the Banksia varieties that rely on a bushfire to germinate.