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Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

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Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#51

Post by shimms »

aaron695 wrote: post #23

> The Australian Defense Force is sending ships to the Victoria town of Mallacoota on a two-week supply mission Sums up the lies from Time etc pretty well Using logic from primary school, exactly how could this happen? Two-week supply mission? Richest nation on earth, aka Australia. How does a fire destroy the ability for trucks to get through a road? Falling trees is the best fantasy I can think of. Which as long an…

The town of Mallacoota is essentially surrounded by a moat of fire at the moment. The residents are trapped inside this ring, one part of which is the ocean. The Navy, as well as supplying, are evacuating people off the beach as there is no other safe way out of that part of the country at the moment.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#52

Post by maddog3356 »

braythwayt wrote: post #46
maddog3356 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.” Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.” Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.” Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...” And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.” This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN.…

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph?

Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky.

With no good historical evidence, the idea was to try the theory starting with the absorption spectrum of CO2. I gave that spectrum. Then some dozens of teams did computations starting with that spectrum. I reported the results of those computations: Nearly all of them have long since proved to be wildly inaccurate. So, the theory fails.

Net, we have no good evidence.

Your X, Y, Z is not evidence at all. Neither is anything about Scotland.

Again, once again, over again, yet again, if you have some solid evidence present it. Historical, in terms of the Gore graph? Theoretical that lets us set aside the dozens of wildly failed attempts?

It's your turn now.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#53

Post by adrianN »

maddog3356 wrote: post #43
maddog3356 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the costs of de-carbonising the economy The costs are supposed to be about $94 T just in the US: See https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-... But there is no good evidence at all that human sources of CO2 have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth: There is no good evidence that more CO2 would increase temperatures or that less CO2 would lower temperatures. For som…

Some anonymous viewers voted down this post. This post was very carefully written by a STEM field Ph.D. from a world class research university and is solid science and not politics. If you have a rational argument, then make it. Else it appears that HN has some dedicated climate alarmists who attack anything that questions their orthodoxy. Such behavior is political and against the Hacker News rules.

The IPCC reports are solid science not made by anonymous people on an Internet forum and claim the opposite of what you say. As I'm not an expert myself, I tend to trust the majority of the climate scientists.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#54

Post by nomercy400 »

desdiv wrote: post #42
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect them to actually do? The entire CO2 output of Australia could drop to zero with negligible effect on climate change.

Australia produced 19.6 tonnes of coal _per person_ in 2018. That's the highest in the world. I don't think it's in any position to be pointing fingers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coal_prod... 481.3 million tonnes of coal / 24.6 million people

It's a bit strange to use the population density of Australia to make a point, as the population density of Australia is one of the lowest in the world (3).

You're basically saying we should tackle Australia's 481 before China's 3523 or India's 716 or US' 702. Maybe we should tackle China first, as it is producing 45% of the world's coal, compared to 6% of Australia.

Now if you were to say that Australia is the 5th biggest producer of coal in the world, that'd be a more convincing argument.

I'm also surprised by Indonesia (6th). And the fact that Germany and Poland contribute 60% of the EU's (4th) coal production.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#55

Post by [deleted] »

maddog3356 wrote: post #52
braythwayt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.” Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.” Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.” Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...” And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.” This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN.…

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph? Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. With no good historical evidence, th…

[deleted]

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#56

Post by Angostura »

maddog3356 wrote: post #52
braythwayt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No good evidence” sounds suspiciously like “no true scotsman.” Alice: “There’s no evidence that humans have contributed to climate change.” Bob: “Well, actually, X, Y, and Z.” Alice: “I don’t accept those. There’s no GOOD evidence...” And here we have a throwaway account using emotional rhetoric like “climate alarmist monster.” This kind of comment is not anywhere close to the standard we have come to demand on HN.…

The big evidence that higher concentrations of CO2 cause global warming was just the graph in Gore's movie. I thoroughly debunked that graph. You have a defense of that graph? Next, we just canNOT take junk evidence as a reason for big, expensive responses. As I explained that would take us back to killing people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. With no good historical evidence, th…

I would like to see your break down your belief structure a bit more, so I can understand it.

Which of you do you believe?

1. That CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas? 2. That increasing the concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere doesn't influence global temperatures? 3. That human activity hasn't increased CO2 concentrations significantly.

If you answer those, we'll be able to know where your head is a bit better.

FWIW, no-one has ever argued that CO2 levels is the only factor effecting climate.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#58

Post by pnako »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #25
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect them to actually do? The entire CO2 output of Australia could drop to zero with negligible effect on climate change.

Export less to the bigger emitters. Campaign to the world using the bushfires as an example of how normal historic occurrences (bushfires) are intensified - which will probably strike a chord, although unnecessarily, in California. Use Australia's phenomenal natural gifts of empty expenses of land and abundant sunshine to generate electricity, to use directly or create portable hydrogen, or any other such pursuit req…

[flagged]

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#59

Post by mceoin »

jamesbfb wrote: post #33
eeh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every country acted that way, we'd make no progress. Every country needs to do its fair share, and Australia is not: http://theconversation.com/australia-hit-its-kyoto-target-bu...

Absolutely. Anthony Albanese (opposition leader for Labor here in Aus) said exactly this today on ABC. Whilst there is negligible correlation between the fires and our action (or inaction) to climate change as a country, the rhetoric of “well, we output so little compared of other developed nations” should not apply. Oh, and our elected Prime Minister brought a lump of coal into parliament, which says as much.

Also important to recognize that Australia's carbon contribution is not solely limited to domestic output but also our coal industry. Australia is the largest exporter of coal in the world and this is not properly accounted for in our emissions accounting. On a per-person basis, our output is among the highest in the world and the inaction of others does not absolve us from having a moral responsibility to clean up our own mess at the very least.

Re: Wildfires Are Raging Outside Every Major City in Australia

#60

Post by kmlx »

benjaminsuch wrote: post #57

Excuse my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what makes it so difficult to extinguish the fire? (This question is not meant to be an ass) I tried to google it, but couldn't find a proper answer. I'm just really curious.

you've got to understand australia is huge, as big as the united states.

so when you've got fires as big as european nations, it's impossible to extinguish, even contain.

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