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How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

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Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#391
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there doesn't really seem like that big of an incentive to sell a "lie" that CO2 is fucking the climate. The article we're commenting on argues there's been a huge pressure towards researching ways to stop beta amyloid plaques; and yet there's no obvious "incentive" to do so. It's just a catchy hot topic on which many have invested their careers. In the case of climate change, you have to factor in both the scienti…

How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. And as far as I am aware, the media continues to have zero influence in how NSF grants are awarded. Another fun fact, Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change is the most watched channel on cable TV. T…

> How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science?

Exactly through the same mechanism that skewed Alzheimer's research. Some topics are "hotter" and scientists know that to obtain grants, be published, and attract unspecialised media attention they better mention climate change in their articles and possibly highlight some major consequence (even with qualifiers as "may", "could" etc.).

This stuff is then picked up by mainstream media and spread to a much larger public, making the topic even hotter. Finally, scientists are a subset of the mainstream media consumers, and might not be much better than the average public outside their domain of expertise. So they are likely to be influenced by sensationalistic reporting outside their field. (For example, a physicist cannot evaluate the soundness of an economic study on the consequences of climate change- but might be influenced by it when deciding grants or publication worthiness of something related to his field).

> Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media.

The foundational research is tiny compared to the mass of research on the myriad consequences of climate change. And the effects are what concern us.

> Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change

Yes, Fox News. I am European, I have never watched a single minute of Fox News. I can assure you that almost all news outlets I follow just love to publish news about climate change, the scarier the better. The situation of the US might be different- on the other hand last time I checked 40% of Americans believed in creationism, so maybe the US public opinion and media are not a good sample.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#392
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. And as far as I am aware, the media continues to have zero influence in how NSF grants are awarded. Another fun fact, Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change is the most watched channel on cable TV. T…

> How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Exactly through the same mechanism that skewed Alzheimer's research. Some topics are "hotter" and scientists know that to obtain grants, be published, and attract unspecialised media attention they better mention climate change in their articles and possibly highlight some major consequence (even with qualifiers as "may", "could" etc.). This stuff is then p…

In the case of the Alzheimer 'cabal', there was a large minority of researchers that were being locked out of funding by the cabal. Can you point to a single credible climate science researcher that has contrarian views on the consensus and also lacks access to funding for research? As mentioned in another post, the oil industry is very wealthy and is spending large sums of money in this domain. So while there are plenty of contrarians, I highly doubt the credible ones are having any issues with funding.

Whether you realize it or not, you are making some fairly extraordinary claims. While the academic world is subject to politicking and influence like any other domain, it tends to get things right in the long run. If your issue is with media over sensationalizing climate change headlines, well that is a separate issue, and quite frankly seems like nitpicking considering how little progress we have made in solving the problem and how dire the consequences can potentially be.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#393
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with autoimmunity. Some researchers are obsessed with genetics. But it's mostly about self misclassification due to infections and dysbiosis. Luckily, some top journals have started accepting this, but it's still an uphill battle against the establishment: * Type 1 diabetes: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 * Multiple sclerosis: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/462/eaat43…

Posts like this one are exactly why I keep coming back day after day to this forum. Thank you for this amazing informational share. I've long wondered if infections are behind many of the unexplained mid and late life disorders. It's exciting to see that it's finally being recognized as a credible explanation in the literature. As someone with a family member suffering from autoimmune, I'm hopeful that this trend wil…

Thanks for your kind reply.

Just to clarify, it's both infections OR dysbiosis (your own commensal bacteria, fungi and virus going out of control).

The infection + molecular mimicry theory of autoimmunity was already quite well established in the 80s, but commensal dysbiosis + molecular mimicry is only starting to emerge now, and it's likely to be even more important. See section 1 (introduction) of this paper for a whole overview:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1....

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#394
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Exactly through the same mechanism that skewed Alzheimer's research. Some topics are "hotter" and scientists know that to obtain grants, be published, and attract unspecialised media attention they better mention climate change in their articles and possibly highlight some major consequence (even with qualifiers as "may", "could" etc.). This stuff is then p…

In the case of the Alzheimer 'cabal', there was a large minority of researchers that were being locked out of funding by the cabal. Can you point to a single credible climate science researcher that has contrarian views on the consensus and also lacks access to funding for research? As mentioned in another post, the oil industry is very wealthy and is spending large sums of money in this domain. So while there are pl…

> In the case of the Alzheimer 'cabal', there was a large minority of researchers that were being locked out of funding by the cabal

I think the most important thing here is to remember that the term 'cabal' is completely improper. The article this thread is about says explicitly that "despite being described as a “cabal,” the amyloid camp was neither organized nor nefarious". So what happened is just the result of an un-organised majority of scientists applying a selective pressure on the type of research that was funded and published, often without even realising it. This effect is always a risk in science. There isn't hotter topic in science, politics and information today of climate change, and I don't need to produce any example of scientists who were "locked out" to be certain that the effect is strong in the field.

This article might give you an idea of the most extreme example (for which the term 'cabal' might even be appropriate):

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/02/hacked-c...

But most of the pressure is probably implicit: everyone wants their research to be sexy, and there's nothing sexier than linking the hottest topic of the time and pointing to some coming existential threat. Scientist do it all the time, no nefarious intentions but it's part of the game.

Finally, you seem to have a very restrictive idea of climate change science. There's a pretty much established physical base to it, but the quantification and consequences concern a myriad different disciplines: from statistics to botanic, ecology, ethology, economics, medicine, social sciences, agricultural sciences, engineering, etc. These offer enormous space for speculation about the future, with results that are much less solid than those of the physical foundations.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#395
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue com…

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someon…

Dear Gavinray

What you said is very intuitive however not entirely true. Let me explain: Bacteria are happy no matter what as they (as community of different bacteria) can adjust to content of the human gut; i.e. when we feed simple sugars (in contrast to fibre that is a polymer made of many sugars) some microorganisms will be more than happy to go on simple sugar-diet that requires less energy to consume it. However it can disregulate metabolic network of microbiome that has been co evolving with fibre based diet rather than simple sugars. Early humans consumed much more plant based fibre and therefore we hardwired our human metabolism and twicked immune response to co exist with microbiome that consumes fibre. Let me give you an example: when microbiome gets fibre from our diet it returns us side products of fibre metabolism including short chain fatty acids (scfa). They(scfa) stimulate many receptors in our body and keep us healthy. So in summary: microbiome will adjust its metabolism to what is available and will be always happy given there is any food. Microbes can even consume our own mucosa when we starve or when we die. It is more about keeping the community of microbes at homeostasis (in contrast to dysbiosis). Keeping them on diet that we used to feed them for hundreds of thousands years of our co evolution even preceding primates appearance. Our bodies depend on side products of microbial metabolism of what we used to feed them and definitely not of what western like diet feeds them nowodays. We live in the world of disregulated microbial metabolism. It disregulates us, our own metabolism, our brains, our immune responses, almost all tissues. We cause dysbiosis of the global ecosystems on the planet. This is reflected in the dysbiosis of our own gut. We are degenerating our microbial shield and degenerate our and other species.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#396
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue com…

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someon…

Furthermore, as presented below recent study has linked microbial metabolism of sugar, dysbiosis and antigen-specific immune responses to insulin. This is the first study that identifies precisely the cause of autoiimmunity in type 1 diabetes.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#397
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of the Alzheimer 'cabal', there was a large minority of researchers that were being locked out of funding by the cabal. Can you point to a single credible climate science researcher that has contrarian views on the consensus and also lacks access to funding for research? As mentioned in another post, the oil industry is very wealthy and is spending large sums of money in this domain. So while there are pl…

> In the case of the Alzheimer 'cabal', there was a large minority of researchers that were being locked out of funding by the cabal I think the most important thing here is to remember that the term 'cabal' is completely improper. The article this thread is about says explicitly that "despite being described as a “cabal,” the amyloid camp was neither organized nor nefarious". So what happened is just the result of a…

> This article might give you an idea of the most extreme example

Ahh, yes. A link to a 10 year old climategate article. Nice one.

> everyone wants their research to be sexy

This is flat out wrong. There are plenty of people who care more about money, prestige, and power than they do about producing sexy research. Right now, the easiest path to achieve that would be to produce contrarian research. There is no shortage of funding from the oil industry, and the right wing media will give air time to anyone that sounds like they have a plausible sounding argument.

> you seem to have a very restrictive idea of climate change science

I am well aware that there is a large amount of uncertainty regarding the predictions of the future. Pretty much everyone, including the 'academia establishment' acknowledges that. If anything, that fact that they are so open about these uncertainties makes your argument of 'cabal-group-think' weaker.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#398
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because a lot of the antivax scare was around thimerosal in vaccines (which is a mercury compound). Logic was: mercury is known to be poisonous, thimerosal is a mercury compound, thus vaccines must be poisonous.

I wonder what they think about table salt.

I've seen this analogy a lot from people who think they're obviously much smarter than the antivax idiots. It's completely, horrifically wrong. Much of mercury's reputation for toxicity actually comes from mercury compounds very similar to thiomersal, which are in general a lot more dangerous than the elemental form. Amongst other things, they're the reason that eating large amounts of fish causes mercury and the culprit in the Minamata Bay mass poisoning. You can hold a pool of mercury in your hand with basically no ill effects, but as little as a single drop of one of those mercury compounds on your skin can kill.

Now, it turns out that the very small amounts of thiomersal in vaccines were probably safe. This was by no means obvious at the time. Mercury poisoning is nasty - the symptoms can appear long after the initial exposure, range from death to subtle neurological effects like changes in behaviour and loss of IQ, and appear at relatively low exposures. Also, there just wasn't all that much modern research into thiomersal or its metabolite ethylmercury.

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