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Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

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Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#51

Post by LPTS »

sspencer wrote: post #42
LPTS wrote: post #14

I guess it depends on the job, but I can't stand people in suits. It's so obsolete now. That kind of tired attention to surface conformity only encourages the same old thinking that is responsible for everything sucking. Wear what is comfortable and looks decent. The sooner the puritanical idea that you have to dress yourself in that ridiculous, uncomfortable costume and prance around like some peacock samurai in ful…

You can't stand people in suits? Why do you even care? Let actions speak rather than clothes. I've known programmers who wore fastidiously cut suits and programmers who wore birks and cutoffs. Both clothing classifications produced fast, capable, flexible programmers who could think on their feet, and both classes also produced morons who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. Look beyond the surface and you wil…

You are right, I was wrong. I was overly rhetorical.

If you like to wear suits, by all means. Sometimes a really nice button down shirt and nice pants feels good.

What really gets me is mandatory dress codes that don't have anything to do with the work getting done, and the outdated thinking that wearing nice clothes means anything. If that's how you are comfortable, please.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#52

Post by grag »

At a startup I worked for they almost dismissed a candidate because he showed up in a suit for an interview. It apparently showed that he didn't understand the kind of company he was interviewing for. So it really depends on the culture of the company.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#53

Post by icey »

First off, definitely use a cover letter. Don't use your template, write something specifically about why you want this job at this company. Be sincere.

With regards to a suit; here's what I've always done. I suppose it's a little risky, but it's always been fantastic for me.

Call the company you're interviewing, at whatever public number you find. Hopefully you get a receptionist, or at least someone gabby. Tell them that you're coming in for an interview, and you'd really like to dress appropriately - so instead of asking for advice, ask what their boss is wearing that day. If the answer is slacks and a button-up shirt (short-sleeved or not), then you're going to wear a coat and tie for the interview. If the answer is jeans, then you're going to wear slacks, polished shoes and a button up shirt.

You don't have to be shy about this, companies really like to know that you give a shit about what they think. It definitely shows when I'm interviewing with someone who knows why they want to work with us versus someone who just wants a paycheck.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#54

Post by IsaacSchlueter »

icky wrote: post #50
johnyzee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We wear t-shirts because clothes don't matter, but if you wear a suit you're unfit for startup hacker life." That puts into words my vaguely-formed concept of why I defiantly wear dress pants and expensive shirts (+ suit and tie for interviews) even when working at a tech startup with 20-somethings in (carefully chosen) worn jeans and t-shirts. If clothes don't matter, why am I being judged because I value aesthet…

> If clothes don't matter, why am I being judged because I value aesthetics, not excluding the clothes I wear? Because they do matter. The function of any level or style of dress at an interview is to mark you as part of the Right Group. This holds true even when the interviewers don't realize that they're unconsciously doing it. Overdressing for an interview at some companies can put you in the Wrong Group just as s…

The last time I wore a tie at work was my job interview.

You should always dress nicer for the interview than you expect to for the job. It has nothing to do with impressing the interviewer. I wore a tie to my interview because it made me feel important, which made me feel more confident, which made me come across as a more compelling candidate.

Use whatever tools you have to manipulate yourself into being the person (at least temporarily) who easily gets the job you want.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#56

Post by emmett »

hunterjrj wrote: post #41
timr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that a suit always provides a good impression. That's not automatic, especially if you're interviewing at a small, casual company that is trying to maintain a specific kind of casual, fun work culture. Like, say...a startup.

Work for a startup. Second startup actually, both successful. Wore a suit to both interviews. Results paint a pretty clear picture. Even companies looking to maintain a casual, fun work culture should appreciate their candidates attempting to present themselves in a professional way. If an interviewer casts someone in a negative light because they wore a suit... I'll go out on a limb and risk getting flamed by saying…

We haven't had many people show up in suits to interviews at Justin.tv, but it's a reasonably accurate indicator of failure. I try not to prejudge, but there's only so many times you can see a correlation and not start to stereotype.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#58

Post by rms »

The rule I typically follow is to go one level of dress beyond whatever the typical dress for the company is. So if it is a startup where people would normally wear geeky black shirts with witty sayings on them, wear jeans and a polo shirt or a dress shirt, or even no-tie business casual at your discretion.

If the dress is normally no-tie business casual, wear business casual with a tie or a suit if that makes you feel comfortable. You definitely don't have to wear a suit for an engineering interview, you can wear a shirt and tie and no jacket.

So I would ask the HR person who scheduled your interview what people/the boss normally wear to work, then go one level higher in dressiness where one level higher is a fluid concept based on your personal comfort level.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#59

Post by aswanson »

sidsavara wrote: post #9
cperciva wrote: post #2

In my CL template, I end up talking about how, in high school, I woke up at 5:00 am to practice for contest math tests Take that out. It doesn't matter what sort of job you're applying for -- the words "high school" should never appear in the resume or cover letter of anyone who has a college degree. As for the rest: Dress like the job you want to have, not like the job you're applying for. If I was applying for a ma…

Agreed on taking out high school. I'm 28 and recently began taking out all references to college as well a couple years ago (my resume lists my degrees). I agree dress like the job you want to have, but I disagree with the t-shirt bit. I've worked at 4 different companies, and always show up wearing professional, clean clothes to my interview (suit and tie the first time, since then just button down shirts and dress…

References to high school after any time in college is suspect; at the adult stage you should be referencing adult accomplishments and activities.

Re: Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?

#60

Post by petercooper »

The clothing is just a facade, what really counts is how you act. As such, going fully suited is the best policy, but feel free to customize it a bit.. a slightly informal tie, a quirky jacket, perhaps. You need to look like you've made an effort.

Once you're in and they get a good first impression, then lead with your personality. If you're an interesting person but you don't get the job because you're dressed too formally, you clearly didn't use your personality.. because while first impressions can be made by dress, the impression made ten minutes into an interview should have been driven 99% by the PERSONALITY of the interviewee.

Use the suit to get the first impression, use your personality for the rest.

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