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Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

reuters.com

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Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#11

Post by juusto »

arkitaip wrote: post #8
juusto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it is something right? Also a deterrent to future actions by same/other companies. Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

Deterrent? The low cost is basically an invitation to continue their dirty work.

Can't believe I will defend Facebook but here it goes.

The purpose of a fine is not to bankrupt a company but to be a slap in the wrist to avoid further behaviour. Just like a speeding ticket won't dent my pay check this won't be a blip in the radar of Facebook, but if they continue expect the fines to grow more and more.

I ask again, what would an appropriate amount for a fine be?

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#12

Post by juusto »

grecy wrote: post #10
juusto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it is something right? Also a deterrent to future actions by same/other companies. Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

> At least it is something right? Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me. > how much do you think would an appropriate fine be? If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that ge…

Would be interesting to know how much money did Facebook make in this deal and apply the fine accordingly.

Knowing that we would be better informed to say if 1.6 Million is a lot or not according to the offence.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#13

Post by johnfactorial »

juusto wrote: post #5
alexbanks wrote: post #2

1.6 million. Basically nothing.

At least it is something right? Also a deterrent to future actions by same/other companies. Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

I've often heard suggestions that fines be specified in law as percentages of revenue. IANAL and don't know how feasible that is, but it makes more sense to me than raw dollar amounts which, by their nature, make crime more affordable over time due to inflation and more affordable in proportion to income.

I.e. a $5 fine is a harsher punishment in 1990 than in 2020, and is a greater deterrent to someone with $50 in their pocket than someone with $50,000. But a fine of 1% of yearly revenue is the same effect across time and class.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#15

Post by throwaway_tech »

juusto wrote: post #5
alexbanks wrote: post #2

1.6 million. Basically nothing.

At least it is something right? Also a deterrent to future actions by same/other companies. Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

>Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

Well its not their first fine for improper sharing of user data.

So what is the goal of the fine? Is it to prevent bad behavior, if so, the prior and current fines taken together have failed. Is the goal to punish FB monetarily for bad behavior? If so, the fine has failed and FB is actually being financially rewarded because the financial gain exceeds the fine.

A FB user's worth to the company is $158/user. FB shared data of 440,000 users...so at minimum the fine should be $139 Million or 2x the value of each user FB. Now that is just the fine for improper data sharing by the regulator...each actual victim should also be able to privately sue FB (or collectively in a class action) for actual damages. You may say that is outrageous, but guaranteed FB would still turn around and abuse user data willfully in the future.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#16

Post by thomasfortes »

grecy wrote: post #10
juusto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it is something right? Also a deterrent to future actions by same/other companies. Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?

> At least it is something right? Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me. > how much do you think would an appropriate fine be? If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that ge…

I prefer to use the analogy of being fined for illegal parking for less than the value of the parking lot fee.

If no one fined you, you parked for free, if you got fined, you still paid less than what you would pay to the parking lot.

And I agree with you, fines should be progressive, if they aren't, they are a deterrent only to small players.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#17

Post by grecy »

juusto wrote: post #12
grecy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least it is something right? Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me. > how much do you think would an appropriate fine be? If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that ge…

Would be interesting to know how much money did Facebook make in this deal and apply the fine accordingly. Knowing that we would be better informed to say if 1.6 Million is a lot or not according to the offence.

Facebook could sell tens of millions of people's data without their consent for just $10,000.

How much should you fine them in that case?

If I rob a bank and only manage to get away with $50, how much should I be fined, or for how long should I be jailed?

The fine isn't about how much Facebook profited from this violation, it should be about how much they make each year if we really want to discourage this behaviour long term.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#18

Post by bagacrap »

alexbanks wrote: post #2

1.6 million. Basically nothing.

This is a fine for a single app on fb's platform. if it goes through then fb has to either dramatically clean up their act or prepare to face similar fines for thousands of other apps, I would imagine.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#19

Post by grecy »

thomasfortes wrote: post #16
grecy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least it is something right? Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me. > how much do you think would an appropriate fine be? If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that ge…

I prefer to use the analogy of being fined for illegal parking for less than the value of the parking lot fee. If no one fined you, you parked for free, if you got fined, you still paid less than what you would pay to the parking lot. And I agree with you, fines should be progressive, if they aren't, they are a deterrent only to small players.

I heard a skit on the radio once where an American was driving around Sydney looking for a park and asked about parking in some place. A local said, "Oh no, the fine for parking there is $40 a day!".

The American immediately parked there, saying $40 is much cheaper than daily parking in NYC.

Re: Brazil fines Facebook $1.6M for improper sharing of user data

#20

Post by flashgordon »

juusto wrote: post #11
arkitaip wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deterrent? The low cost is basically an invitation to continue their dirty work.

Can't believe I will defend Facebook but here it goes. The purpose of a fine is not to bankrupt a company but to be a slap in the wrist to avoid further behaviour. Just like a speeding ticket won't dent my pay check this won't be a blip in the radar of Facebook, but if they continue expect the fines to grow more and more. I ask again, what would an appropriate amount for a fine be?

Given (ad) revenue is proportional to number of users's data exploited, a variable amount seems fair and yet won't result in bankruptcy. So since you are asking again, how about 1% of annual revenue.
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