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How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

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Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#231

Post by knzhou »

dhimes wrote: post #52
praptak wrote: post #32

The major and established beliefs in science usually have some fringe competition/opposition. You can only tell in hindsight whether it's "a cabal stifling valid criticism" or "scientists refusing to waste time on distractions".

This is an extremely important point. Since I was a grad student, there have been at least 5 monumental "findings" in physics: 1. A spinning top weighs less if it spins one way than if it spins the other 2. A "fifth force," IIRC it was linked to baryons 3. The climate is warming, not (as people thought) cooling 4. Superconductivity can be achieved at high (liquid Ln2) temperatures 5. Fusion can be achieved at low (ro…

Despite what you may hear in breathless news articles, there was no point at which a substantial number of physicists believed (1), (2), (4), (5), (6), or (7). In some cases it was basically 99% against. People weren't rushing to "confirm" these findings, as if they were true by default -- they were rushing to check them, which is extremely different.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#232

Post by knzhou »

Whenever you hear about science being a "cabal", you have to remember that there's a huge survivorship bias. At any moment in science, there are a few dominant hypotheses, which seem to work pretty well, and hundreds of alternative hypotheses, with only vague evidence in favor of them. The vast majority of alternative hypotheses turn out to be completely wrong, and the researchers pushing them are forgotten. The few that turn out to be right get funding and recognition, exactly as many of the researchers mentioned in this article are getting now. In fact, most criticisms of dominant paradigms in science you read are not from outsiders, but from career scientists who are leading the charge towards the next dominant paradigm.

I say this just to point out that understanding the world is not as simple as believing contrarians. At any moment in time, almost all contrarians are completely wrong. Almost all paradigm shifts didn't work. Almost all anomalies faded away.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#233

Post by keeganpoppen »

wavepruner wrote: post #226
cockatiel_day wrote: post #187

This article is 100% true. My first job out of college 10 years ago was in a lab focused on Alzheimer’s research. Our Principle Investigator made an art of writing grant applications for studies that would appear to be in line with mainstream theory, but were really intended to test theories he actually thought were worth testing, presented in results as an “interesting” aside. He believed the amyloid theory had been…

"I suspect this dynamic is not limited to Alzheimer’s research." Agreed, I think it is a universal problem in science. I have an illness that has been curable for decades now, but this cure is treated with hostility by the medical establishment. I look forward to the day when the cabal of my illness collapses. Hopefully then I will be able to talk about what happened without people getting angry.

looks like that day isn't today, given the downvotes xD

in fairness, i think people have a hard time taking claims like this seriously without a little more information, due to its superficial similarity to those of a "crackpot". (but while the _precision_ is pretty poor on the correctness of "crackpot" theories, the _recall_ is pretty much 100%)

arguably > 100%, to be a bit tongue-in-cheek

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#234

Post by mirimir »

goodcanadian wrote: post #229

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -Max Planck Or, as it is more commonly put: Science advances one funeral at a time.

Right.

Also Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962).

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#235

Post by mirimir »

dang wrote: post #222
svara wrote: post #100

A super interesting article, but the title is pure clickbait. In this day and age, feeding into the narrative that science is just another competitive team sport where people compete with whatever means necessary is downright dangerous. Reality is much more nuanced, and the article actually does a good job of detailing that. In some sense this all started from the very beginning, from when Alzheimer's disease (AD) wa…

What's a better title? We can change it. Better = more accurate and neutral, using representative language from the article.

How about "The beta-amyloid paradigm thwarted progress toward an Alzheimer’s cure"?

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#237

Post by quantified »

knzhou wrote: post #232

Whenever you hear about science being a "cabal", you have to remember that there's a huge survivorship bias. At any moment in science, there are a few dominant hypotheses, which seem to work pretty well, and hundreds of alternative hypotheses, with only vague evidence in favor of them. The vast majority of alternative hypotheses turn out to be completely wrong, and the researchers pushing them are forgotten. The few…

Recall the saying that science proceeds one funeral at a time. I believe it was coined as part of describing the shift to acceptance of plate tectonics.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#238

Post by lincolnq »

goodcanadian wrote: post #229

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -Max Planck Or, as it is more commonly put: Science advances one funeral at a time.

Is there an age at which you favor forcing scientists into retirement?

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#239

Post by quantified »

goodcanadian wrote: post #229

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -Max Planck Or, as it is more commonly put: Science advances one funeral at a time.

Just made the same observation, then scrolled down to see yours.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#240

Post by efa »

DarkmSparks wrote: post #125
aaron695 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was, however, no conspiracy or "cabal". These were simply people who were convinced they were on the right track. No one thought the weapons of mass destruction were fake and lied and said they were real. The conspiracy was "These were simply people who were convinced they were on the right track." so did not allow competing theories. Exactly the same with the VW emissions issue. This is exactly how conspirac…

Really interesting observation, fascinating to see it described as "emergent behaviour". WMDs were known to be fake from the start though, they were just stealing Iraqi oil, and David Kelly lost his life trying to expose it - could you suggest a better example? Article is great to, came to post something along the lines of "no it wasn't a conspiracy", but the article summerises exactly what happened under the picture…

I'm sure what were fake. The US GAVE Saddam WMDs during the war with Iran (maybe you don't consider these WMDs). No one argues that he didn't use mustard gas on the Kurds.
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