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How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

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Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#221

Post by bobthechef »

clairity wrote: post #192
svara wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree with much of what you wrote, but I think the politics of the funding game just reflect a fundamental problem for which I don't see an obvious solution: Science has to be conservative, in order to protect the integrity of the record of published findings. This can lead to a situation where a field gets stuck in a local optimum from which progress is no longer possible, because things that don't seem t…

science doesn't have to be conservative at all, so why presume it? most (advanced) knowledge is tentative anyway, so why not take the strategy of accepting it all while it's uncertain? negative results are just a valuable as advances, and contradictions are just areas begging for more research. what you really seem to be asking is "why can't science be more efficient?" and science shouldn't be more efficient. it shou…

When people say that science is conservative, what they mean is that it progresses slowly and cautiously to built up certainty. Science is a tradition that typically progresses incrementally and is revised incrementally (I should say, there are many scientific traditions that proceed this way, not some single, grand, capital S "Science!"). When anomalies occur in the experimental results, it takes a while for them to be digested in a way that leads to model revision and then broad acceptance. Now, that isn't to say that people can't explore unexplored avenues or explore alternatives. They should, but that doesn't contradict the idea that the sciences proceed conservatively. Otherwise, you've got chaos, not science.

In any case, you're typically going to profit much more by learning from a meticulously examined and fleshed out tradition than you are by starting from proverbial scratch. Science wants certainty which it why, when done properly (aye, there's the rub!), it goes to great lengths to verify things. Conservatism, contrary to widespread misconception, is not about stagnation, but about being careful and responsible with the stewardship of your hard won inheritance.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#222

Post by dang »

svara wrote: post #100

A super interesting article, but the title is pure clickbait. In this day and age, feeding into the narrative that science is just another competitive team sport where people compete with whatever means necessary is downright dangerous. Reality is much more nuanced, and the article actually does a good job of detailing that. In some sense this all started from the very beginning, from when Alzheimer's disease (AD) wa…

What's a better title? We can change it.

Better = more accurate and neutral, using representative language from the article.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#223

Post by frogger23123 »

ivalm wrote: post #203
frogger23123 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man. It's not black and white. Some are skeptical of the _degree_ to which the claims are true. Go watch Al Gore's 2006 documentary to see a good example of alarmist hyperbole. Some would say this movement has been hijacked by those seeking political and economic power, by those who don't care about the environment. Some would say the projected outcome is 10x exaggerated, and are suspicious of proposed "solutio…

> Al Gore's 2006 documentary He is not a scientist. The entire discussion was about scientists engaging in group think. Regarding skeptics to degrees 1. There are no credible skeptics in the community regarding the observation that climate has warmed in the past 100 years 2. There are nearly no credible skeptics in the community regarding the rather simple deduction that humans caused a non-trivial portion of the war…

Yes. "No true Scotsman" believes such things. My point stands, that the accuracy of the models is debatable, and the extreme scenarios that are used to inform policy are quite possibly exaggerated by an order of magnitude, by influence of powerful non-scientist entities.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#224

Post by frogger23123 »

scottlocklin wrote: post #124
frogger23123 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gum disease is linked to carbohydrates, which aligns with the "type 3 diabetes" hypothesis. (carbs feed bacterial overgrowth)

Gum disease is also linked to being old, just like Alzheimers disease, heart disease, baldness, wrinkly faces, diabetic disease and lots of other things. Sermon: people are really, really shit at linear regression.

I agree.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#225

Post by blaser-waffle »

dnautics wrote: post #118
aaron695 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was, however, no conspiracy or "cabal". These were simply people who were convinced they were on the right track. No one thought the weapons of mass destruction were fake and lied and said they were real. The conspiracy was "These were simply people who were convinced they were on the right track." so did not allow competing theories. Exactly the same with the VW emissions issue. This is exactly how conspirac…

The funny thing about that conspiracy is that the WMD were real. Hussein had them, and and its true that he didn't give them up, and he refused access. Here's the but: they were found by the US, under seal exactly in the place of record according to the UN. It's pretty clear that Hussein wasn't actively developing it anymore. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334

Saddam had chemical weapons and actively used them on the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq War, and later against the Kurds.

Saddam also received considerable material support from the US during the Iran-Iraq War -- those pictures of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand aren't fake. Lots of jokes about "we knew Saddam had WMDs cuz we gave em to him!" were, to a degree, credible on paper.

Saddam had long since stopped working on them, but made a point to look like he was. This allowed him to drum up support by posturing like he was standing up to the US, and also to look threatening to the Iranians (plus the Kurds + Shias).

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#226

Post by wavepruner »

cockatiel_day wrote: post #187

This article is 100% true. My first job out of college 10 years ago was in a lab focused on Alzheimer’s research. Our Principle Investigator made an art of writing grant applications for studies that would appear to be in line with mainstream theory, but were really intended to test theories he actually thought were worth testing, presented in results as an “interesting” aside. He believed the amyloid theory had been…

"I suspect this dynamic is not limited to Alzheimer’s research."

Agreed, I think it is a universal problem in science.

I have an illness that has been curable for decades now, but this cure is treated with hostility by the medical establishment. I look forward to the day when the cabal of my illness collapses. Hopefully then I will be able to talk about what happened without people getting angry.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#229

Post by goodcanadian »

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -Max Planck

Or, as it is more commonly put: Science advances one funeral at a time.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#230

Post by hitekker »

dang wrote: post #222
svara wrote: post #100

A super interesting article, but the title is pure clickbait. In this day and age, feeding into the narrative that science is just another competitive team sport where people compete with whatever means necessary is downright dangerous. Reality is much more nuanced, and the article actually does a good job of detailing that. In some sense this all started from the very beginning, from when Alzheimer's disease (AD) wa…

What's a better title? We can change it. Better = more accurate and neutral, using representative language from the article.

How about "Collusion" instead of "Cabal"?

Wikipedia defines collusion as "a secret cooperation or deceitful agreement in order to deceive others, although not necessarily illegal".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

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