341–350 of 360 posts
College isn't worth it, but that's the whole point. It's becoming what economists call a Giffen Good, that is, something people consume even more of the more expensive it becomes. The biggest value factor of all is Metcalfe's Law of network effects, where the almost universal availability of higher education means that not pursuing it places your starting position in life on the outer long tail of the success curve.…
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> no, that’s completely wrong. You are confusing averages and conditional probabilities. On average, those from higher classes may do better - that doesn’t mean that a kid from s lower social class should take that as guidance. ??? You're saying that someone should not consider the outcome distribution of people similarly situated to themselves when making a choice? Isn't that completely rejecting empiricism? If, fro…
“??? You're saying that someone should not consider the outcome distribution of people similarly situated to themselves when making a choice? Isn't that completely rejecting empiricism?“ No, what I’m saying is presence of a statistical pattern in a whole population is not evidence that we shouldn’t make policy to change it. Statistically, those who live in Miami are more tan than those who live in Wisconsin, on avera…
In your example, you'd expect the Wisconsin guy to increase in tan more when you put him in the Bahamas and give him a dose of sun than the guy who started out in Miami and was given an equivalent further dose of sun.
But we've measured the opposite-- the guy in Wisconsin (poor background) does get more tan, but doesn't increase in tan (increase in income) nearly as much as the guy who started in Miami (non-poor backgrounds).
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> The demand is so high he just rejects work. I think as we advance in the information age, maybe degrees are less about helping you actually get the job done, and more about serving as a mean for companies (and countries) to roughly filter high surplus of candidates. Add the fact its easier today to apply for job posts, its very hard for recruiters to filter intelligently at reasonable time. My guess is if everyone…
There is a reason there is a shortage of nurses. Not everyone finds excitement in dealing with sick people all day. Also, most highly paid nurses do have a B.S. in Nursing.
I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
Would you be willing to name names? Outside of government and defense contractors I personally have not run into any blocks from not having a degree, but I am in the SV bubble where up is down so I have a heavy bias.
Most major, publicly-traded, corporations want a degree beyond entry-level positions. Some companies won't even touch you without a degree (including many startups): for example, Flexport turned me down for the job I'd already done for over a decade, longer than they've been a company, for not having a 4-year degree, this is a direct copy-paste from the rejection email when I applied:
>You obviously have many of the skills we're looking for. However, for the Customs Brokerage role we require a BA/BS degree as well as previous experience in a broker role doing entries and customs classifications.
At the time of that email rejection I'd been doing the job for 12 years and 1 month at my current employer.
Even postings at places like YC have degree requirements for stuff that shouldn't (like assistants).
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Would you be willing to name names? Outside of government and defense contractors I personally have not run into any blocks from not having a degree, but I am in the SV bubble where up is down so I have a heavy bias.
Not OP, I applied to a Wells Fargo job in Charlotte that wouldn't even let me continue the application after entering that I did not have a degree. This was about maybe 3 or so years ago. I had talked to several recruiters about jobs at various companies (from consulting firms to small businesses) which cut communication after learning I dont have a degree. Most recently was a few months back when I talked to a recru…
I've had gobs and gobs of jobs found via indeed do this to me as part of the 'pre-qualification'. They want to know where you got your degree, sometimes your GPA etc.
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“??? You're saying that someone should not consider the outcome distribution of people similarly situated to themselves when making a choice? Isn't that completely rejecting empiricism?“ No, what I’m saying is presence of a statistical pattern in a whole population is not evidence that we shouldn’t make policy to change it. Statistically, those who live in Miami are more tan than those who live in Wisconsin, on avera…
??? We're comparing the income difference (and ratio) between (poor background + college education) and (poor background + no college education) to the income difference between (non-poor background + college education) and (non-poor background + no college education). In your example, you'd expect the Wisconsin guy to increase in tan more when you put him in the Bahamas and give him a dose of sun than the guy who st…
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I totally agree that a big factor in income differences is due to cultural biases that favor degree holders. I don’t think degrees are economically zero value though, for example patents are primarily held by inventors with postgraduate degrees, and more businesses are started by degree holders. I’m not really sure how to answer your first part, I’m not trying to talk past anyone, but I feel like people are respondin…
Right, so the issue with the income premium without economic growth argument is that the government would have collected those incomes anyway, just from different people (unless the student loans are structured as a % of future earnings, in which case I apologize for my ignorance). Of course, degrees aren't zero value, but the subsidies for education (student loans) could still be distorting supply in a way that resu…
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??? We're comparing the income difference (and ratio) between (poor background + college education) and (poor background + no college education) to the income difference between (non-poor background + college education) and (non-poor background + no college education). In your example, you'd expect the Wisconsin guy to increase in tan more when you put him in the Bahamas and give him a dose of sun than the guy who st…
No, because we haven’t done nearly enough for the poor guy. It’s not the case that we’ve done everything possible for the poor and they still didn’t improve much. That’s false.
We measure the value of this-- getting to college-- as very small and even possibly negative.
We also measure interventions and their values / impacts on earnings much higher.
Going "la la la but college would be much better and itself a win if we did 50 other supportive things" is all great, but it's fundamentally handwaving in the absence of evidence.
College isn't worth it, but that's the whole point. It's becoming what economists call a Giffen Good, that is, something people consume even more of the more expensive it becomes. The biggest value factor of all is Metcalfe's Law of network effects, where the almost universal availability of higher education means that not pursuing it places your starting position in life on the outer long tail of the success curve.…
Nitpick: Veblen good, not giffen
Moreover, colleges and universities (especially the great research universities) provide a way to push back the boundaries of human knowledge and transfer concepts and technology to a new generation. College is where you meet friends and lovers.