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36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

vc.gg

61–70 of 77 posts

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know any of the people involved in whatever happened. But this statement is simply not true. You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". Some people can and will abuse the "you can't use violence against me under any circumstance" rule you just mentioned to do very bad things.

I would argue that resorting to physical violence to resolve verbal conflicts is quite high on the scale of intolerable things. > You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". I have issues with this absolutism. What is "intolerance" or not is dependant of culture and context. Such a thin line that can be…

I would argue that this line is not thin at all, you are just mixing things.

There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go".

The point is not "do not tolerate ANY FORM of intolerance", just that tolerance should have clear limits.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#62
post #23

Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?

His email service, cock.li, has a very lax content policy, only disallowing spam, illegal content, or general abuse. This has attracted many ner-do-wells (in addition to the plenty of legitimate users like myself). Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense, which, if his recollection of the events are accurate, is indeed what happened.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that resorting to physical violence to resolve verbal conflicts is quite high on the scale of intolerable things. > You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". I have issues with this absolutism. What is "intolerance" or not is dependant of culture and context. Such a thin line that can be…

I would argue that this line is not thin at all, you are just mixing things. There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go". The point is not "do not tolerate ANY FORM of intolerance", just that tolerance should have clear limits.

> There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go".

The problem is that the gradient between those is smooth, and there's no obvious Schelling Points to stop at.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#64
post #54
post #50

I'm the author of this post. What people who are unaware of the layout of the congress center don't realize is that the video starts when we were leaving. The door "inside" is actually to get "outside". I was told to leave in 5 minutes, I stayed where I was maybe 2 minutes and started walking (I'm not leaving anything out, it was just more of the first audio recording), and then was prevented from leaving the event b…

You may have read me arguing the CCC side in other posts in this thread, but I'd also like to reach out to you and make clear that I very much give you the benefit of the doubt, particularly I'm not gonna assume you _intentionally_ did something. What's driving my opinion is that an eviction at CCC doesn't just happen because a single person is offended by something you did. There's a whole bunch of people involved i…

I don't want to judge who is right and who is wrong in this. Probably everyone involved could have prevented the final outcome of this.

But I think you are wrong with your assumption about the eviction and some other stuff.

Listening to the Audio before the whole incident it is basically said that VC needs to leave the venue immediately, and that they do not want to argue this any further with VC and he can call whoever he wants after he leaves the venue if he thinks he is treated unfair. Even if he had a valid reason to enter or a ticket at that point you have to follow the orders of the people tasked with security or official functions at the venue.

You can sue them afterwards for your ticket price or make a giant fuzz on social media, but if you get asked to leave by someone with authority in the venue, you leave. It's a very simple principle. In the end a guy in the recording even tells someone else to call the police in German. Everyone seems to be calm but fed up with VC, still there was no reason for violence at this point in any form or shape.

So something happened between the recording and the video. And from the blog entry and the following video it's believeable that VC wanted to leave the venue. Knowing the venue from exhibitions and conferences, it is as he describes, he tried to get out and not back in when he was grabbed by multiple people who he claimed were staff / security. He was heading straight for the door not screaming or throwing punches or anything.

Now this is where it gets a bit complicated.

If you refuse to leave a venue, a professional security company will always try to isolate you and then tell you that the police is on it's way and because you are trespassing now you can't leave any longer. We make it clear to you that you are no longer able to leave because you broke the law and we are pressing charges as soon as the police arrives and that gives us the right to keep you in place and hand you over to the police.

If you do not cooperate we can use the least amount of force that is necessary to keep you in place until the police arrives. You can still phone, film or record as much as you like and nobody will touch you as long as you don't try to run or do anything stupid like grab a knife from your pocket or anything that could harm us. It's also not up to staff to steal your phone or prevent the recording.

So the question is if VC was told that police is on the way and then tried to leave the venue. Which would justify the use of force to keep him there, but not in the way it was applied which was very excessive and unprofessional.

That said, here are just two other pointers that this was not a professional security company or most likely not even people with proper certification.

- Proper security doesn't pull up hoodies and put on gloves to team on someone when they are aware that someone is filming. This looks more like Dodgers Antifa friends. Look at the video in the blog post and then at https://b3b76917eedfeb0c4dd3-af59c7b3e9e42ed4215be8c7a95ca95... and you'll see what I mean. Security doesn't dress this way, especially at any professional event. Who wants to look like a bunch of thugs representing a proper business?

- Proper security doesn't try to snatch an eyewitness phone and then tells them he can do shit "because you can't find me on the internet" after showing her crew sweater and face into camera. What a dumb bitch (personal opinion).

No matter how you look at it. VC has the right to stay unharmed and treated properly even if he broke the law and they are pressing charges. Germany is not an open PVP Zone like Texas. And it's CCCs responsibility to guarantee that people under their protection stay unharmed. Especially by their own staff or external service providers.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic considering the forceful removal of people who simply share opposing views on some matters. Is being pro free speech really being a fascist? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

It's a private event. He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there. He showed up anyway and got ejected. I don't see anything wrong with that.

>He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there

This is inaccurate.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#66
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others You're the first person to suggest that he was threatening others.

No, I'm the first person to suggest that (multiple) people believed he was threatening others. Please read carefully :) It doesn't matter whether he was intending to threaten, or ignorant about the rules, or just stupid. If he leaves the boundary of socially acceptable behaviour (yes this is subjective and established by the community) then he may full well get evicted, and with force if necessary. On the legal side,…

>(multiple) people believed he was threatening others

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Unless you're implying that his eviction in itself is evidence, which sounds pretty insane to me.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hausrecht does not allow an assault or removal by force by the organizers. That's the domain of the police.

Hausrecht doesn't, but threatening others does. (See other threads.)

The way you repeatedly suggest that VC was threatening others is bordering on defamatory.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#68
post #62
post #23

Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?

His email service, cock.li, has a very lax content policy, only disallowing spam, illegal content, or general abuse. This has attracted many ner-do-wells (in addition to the plenty of legitimate users like myself). Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to creat…

>Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense,

One of these are not like the others. Who gets offended at cocaine.ninja?

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#69
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video shows that... they evicted some dude that seems to make his personal brand about being edgy and annoying? What exactly am I supposed to be outraged about here?

Hard to see a "brutal attack" from the video (although it is unclear). More a fairly typical forced ejection scuffle. I'd like to know more before forming any view. The poster offers email on domains including one named rape.lol so is obviously a charming fellow.

Supposedly free-speech advocate gratuitously includes smears of NGO rescuing refugees from drowning. What a coincidence!

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#70
post #9

Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.

Hausrecht does not allow an assault or removal by force by the organizers. That's the domain of the police.

Funnily enough it does: https://www.kostenlose-urteile.de/LG-Nuernberg-Fuerth_13-S-8...
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