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36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

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Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#51
post #32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")

> If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others You're the first person to suggest that he was threatening others.

No, I'm the first person to suggest that (multiple) people believed he was threatening others. Please read carefully :)

It doesn't matter whether he was intending to threaten, or ignorant about the rules, or just stupid. If he leaves the boundary of socially acceptable behaviour (yes this is subjective and established by the community) then he may full well get evicted, and with force if necessary.

On the legal side, a judge or jury would repeat that consideration, and establish whether his behaviour was beyond acceptable for the context he was in. Not by the judge's or jury's social standards, but by trying to understand the situation and determine whether the crowd acted "reasonable." Since there's quite a bunch of people involved in his getting kicked out video, I would wager a guess that there was consensus that his behaviour was inacceptable, and a judge/jury would side with that.

German law doesn't do "I spilled hot Starbucks, now I sue Starbucks for damages". You're expected to have a brain and some level of common sense (or be certified psychologically ill, if you prefer).

Relatedly, the "they should've called the police" argument is legally wrong in Germany too. The allies were pretty pissed off after WW2 and wanted to eliminate the "bystander" excuse for people who watched Jews getting gassed. That's where the "failure to render aid" law comes from. Of course, you're not expected to endanger yourself, but - say, there's an average guy assaulting someone, and you're travelling in a group of 5 reasonably muscular, capable guys... your excuse to not step in is gone.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't look or behave like professional security agents. Well they aren't. Security roles at congress are performed by volunteers and that's a good thing, they don't usually have to physically evict people.

Call the police. Don't use a nerd militia.

(Posted in another branch, here for reference:)

The "they should've called the police" argument is legally wrong in Germany. The allies were pretty pissed off after WW2 and wanted to eliminate the "bystander" excuse for people who watched Jews getting gassed. That's where the "failure to render aid" law comes from. Of course, you're not expected to endanger yourself, but - say, there's an average guy assaulting someone, and you're travelling in a group of 5 reasonably muscular, capable guys... your excuse to not step in is gone.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#53
post #9

Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.

Hausrecht does not allow an assault or removal by force by the organizers. That's the domain of the police.

Hausrecht doesn't, but threatening others does. (See other threads.)

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#54
post #50

I'm the author of this post. What people who are unaware of the layout of the congress center don't realize is that the video starts when we were leaving. The door "inside" is actually to get "outside". I was told to leave in 5 minutes, I stayed where I was maybe 2 minutes and started walking (I'm not leaving anything out, it was just more of the first audio recording), and then was prevented from leaving the event b…

You may have read me arguing the CCC side in other posts in this thread, but I'd also like to reach out to you and make clear that I very much give you the benefit of the doubt, particularly I'm not gonna assume you _intentionally_ did something.

What's driving my opinion is that an eviction at CCC doesn't just happen because a single person is offended by something you did. There's a whole bunch of people involved in the eviction, and presumably they agreed to some extent that something you did was inacceptable. Maybe there was something you didn't know, maybe drugs were involved, or maybe just something stupid happened. But somehow there was agreement that an eviction needs to happen.

Unfortunately, the CCC has a responsibility for what happens at a CCC event. The event is a representation of them, and so is what happens at the event and what they allow by their social rules. I hope you can retrospectively look at this with a clear head and find out what went wrong.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#55
post #31
post #23

Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?

Vincent was kicked out because some congress folks believe that he is a fascist.

Ironic considering the forceful removal of people who simply share opposing views on some matters.

Is being pro free speech really being a fascist? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#56
post #22

Flagged, this does not belong here. Let’s not give this guy a platform. Sounds like the 36c3 staff were well within their rights to evict him, and had good reason to do so. Also, he whined about them going for his phone - the congress is not a place you record or photograph people without their permission.

Flagged just because you don't like him and don't want to give him a platform? Jeez, what is up with the socalled liberal left always being intolerant towards anything that goes against their literal brainwashing.

Go dilate.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#58
post #9

Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.

He wasn't being an idiot. If you were literate, you would have snupped out the fact that he was told to write an "im sorry for having a different opinion" essay in order to attend, which he didn't. Why should he... Having an opinion is not a crime.

Also he was clearly physically assaulted by a bunch of teenagers who obviously isn't up to snuff when it comes to performing security detail. Having untrained security personel manhandle other attendants looks really bad no matter how you look at it.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#59
post #52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call the police. Don't use a nerd militia.

(Posted in another branch, here for reference:) The "they should've called the police" argument is legally wrong in Germany. The allies were pretty pissed off after WW2 and wanted to eliminate the "bystander" excuse for people who watched Jews getting gassed. That's where the "failure to render aid" law comes from. Of course, you're not expected to endanger yourself, but - say, there's an average guy assaulting someo…

It doesn't seem that the "aggressor" here was very aggressive and remained largely passive. No laws are absolute and that's what judges are for.

I doubt the "failure to render aid" law in Germany is interpreted as everyone is deputized to enforce every law, everywhere, at all times. There's probably a narrower view on what's appropriate and when.

(More related to the actual events) if someone illegally parks their car in your driveway, you should call the police to have it cited and towed. You can't break the windows and try to move it yourself under normal circumstances. However, if there were a fire and the car were blocking some sort of escape, then sure, break the windows and drop the parking brake to get the car moved.

Again, this is why we have judges and you should call the police in almost every case except those involving grave danger.

Re: 36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

#60
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vincent was kicked out because some congress folks believe that he is a fascist.

Ironic considering the forceful removal of people who simply share opposing views on some matters. Is being pro free speech really being a fascist? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

It's a private event. He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there. He showed up anyway and got ejected. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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