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What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

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Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#201

Post by ip26 »

alisonatwork wrote: post #194
tempsy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a brief period of time I thought the “quit job to travel” was the dream life, but I soon realized, at least for me, that traveling for the sake of travel was just another way of running away of my problems. It also made me realize that most people are happiest when they feel like they’re contributing to society in some way, and traveling non-stop feels like you’re side stepping your role in society rather than ma…

Why does traveling non-stop make you feel like you're side-stepping your role in society? One of the things i like best about traveling is that i have the time and mental energy to engage with the people around me. I eat at restaurants, i go to bars, i listen and share stories, i'll contribute to the local economy and perhaps put a smile on someone's face. When i am working i suppose you could say i am contributing t…

It kind of sounds like what you like best about travel is having free time. In other words it's not about how great travel is, but about how much you dislike like your (all-consuming) job.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#202

Post by o-__-o »

eanzenberg wrote: post #191
tempsy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you’ve saved a certain threshold of money, say $1M, it becomes relatively easy to make your money work for you at a high level so that you can live off dividends.

Until it dont

Limit your drawdown to 4% (3% during recessions) and you’ll have money forever

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#203

Post by o-__-o »

wgaf wrote: post #188
porknubbins wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need an antidote to the current instagram driven travel as consumption lifestyles, but I think they protest a little too much. Most people who go full nomad seem to realize quite well on their own after a year or two that no matter how much they learn, being always rootless and disconnected is not a great life and go back to build a life in one place. Most people aren’t privileged enough to even get this…

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm currently into my third year of traveling and third new country. I'm getting pretty exhausted of starting again (new engineering job, new environment and new friends) and I'm starting to yearn for roots. It does take it's toll on you as now nowhere feels like home.

Then you settle down and the yearn to travel again takes over. It never really settles until you have kids.. and then I wonder if it’s only temporary (really want to travel now but the little one won’t remember it, so I’m rooted to his hometown)

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#204

Post by aSplash0fDerp »

The 21st century should provide a new model for "lifestyle" and career choices as longevity hits its stride and more studies are published.

Between self, relationships, health, career and hobbies, you can only reasonably pick 2 or 3 for prime year successes (except for a lucky/talented/free-rided few) and causes many to spread themselves too thin keeping up with tradition to enjoy success on any them by their golden years.

Its hard to tell if its caveman logic or the females biological clock that dictates rushing into everything at an early age, but career burnout, high divorce rates and health/mental issues at an early age sacrifice too much for the meager returns.

We'll have to compare notes at a later time, but digital natives may hit critical mass this decade (or next) and kick much of the analog work ethics, career timelines and family syncronization theories to the curb in favor of delayed milestones (career and otherwise) as we inch closer to 100 year life-spans with proper planning.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#205

Post by allthecybers »

grecy wrote: post #128
0kl wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your takeaway? What did you mine from really thinking about the meaning and direction you want to take with your life? *clarification: I mean it earnestly, as I have not done anything that you have.

My takeaway is that I must make decisions and take action if I am to live the life I want, in a manner that makes me happy. Nobody else will do that for me, and if I live my life on autopilot I will be extraordinarily disappointed when I look back over my life and see that I never took life by the horns and charted my own course. It's on me, and that is equal measures exciting and (some days) terrifying. I lost my Mu…

> Earning money is the worst of all false gods to chase. We in the western world have lost our path, and it's making us miserable. I met thousands of people in Africa that are happier and more joyous than virtually everyone I've ever met in Canada, Australia or the US.

I don’t disagree with your point.

IMO earning money isn’t the problem. The key is the balance between earning enough money to not struggle to do the things I enjoy, but not letting work and responsibility become the only thing in my life, blocking me from the things I enjoy.

But I will concede that western society has placed an emphasis on consumerism and we evidently all need more stuff. Consumerism is killing our planet as well as making us spend more and save less.

I’m similar in age to you, and despite my privilege, life can seem pretty pointless without time to self-direct, enjoy our interests and not be consumed by our jobs without a break.

Also, losing people close to you can change your perspective on what you spend your time doing. If I only have 20 summers left, I wouldn’t want to spend them working. But I still have to eat and pay rent for that amount of time, and working is the way I pay for it.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#206

Post by alisonatwork »

blueboo wrote: post #130
grecy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

All very impressive -- hope this guy is as happy as his scrupulously cultivated brand requires and celebrates. But I wonder if this represents a cautionary tale -- someone who took their non-"desk job" and assiduously commoditized their adventures. The 110% workaholism never stopped. Click here to buy the book, follow the instagram, subscribe to the YouTube. Or maybe this is what can happen if you don't indulge your…

This is how i see travel bloggers too. Constantly updating the world about your whereabouts, framing every experience as something to be shared, it sounds exhausting to me - just like work!

I don't begrudge them, though. If this person ever needs to go back to work "in the real world", they've kept a brand going that proves they have a work ethic. And if they don't, then presumably at least they've found a way to earn enough cash to maintain the lifestyle they want.

One of the things i wrestle with as i get older is meaning. I don't have a partner and don't want a house or kids. I don't have the killer instinct needed to become a corporate bigwig or an entrepreneur. I keep puttering along as a senior dev, quitting when i have enough cash for a sabbatical, then going back to work somewhere else when the savings run out. I'll never have the means to retire and live my perfect life. I'll just die somewhere, poor and aged out of the profession i never really wanted to do anyway. I suppose that's how most humans go out, but it feels a bit pointless.

I envy people who are very driven and have a clear goal in their lives - whether that goal is to be a rockstar desk jockey, to travel blog the world, or to connect with the people around them. It seems life would be much easier that way. I just kinda drift about, mostly having mediocre or boring days, occasionally having good days, and one day i'll die. It's far from a terrible life, but i can't help but wonder if goal-driven types feel that their lives are more rewarding.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#207

Post by Guest0918231 »

tempsy wrote: post #197
alisonatwork wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does traveling non-stop make you feel like you're side-stepping your role in society? One of the things i like best about traveling is that i have the time and mental energy to engage with the people around me. I eat at restaurants, i go to bars, i listen and share stories, i'll contribute to the local economy and perhaps put a smile on someone's face. When i am working i suppose you could say i am contributing t…

Solo travel is an inherently selfish pursuit. You are just consuming, and not creating anything of value for society.

They're likely helping to create positive experiences and memories for other people during their travels. Some of my best memories in life are thanks to random solo travelers I've met during various trips.

I met a solo traveler waiting for the airport bus in Thailand, and the next week we did a road trip across the country and back together. I met a solo traveler in Hungary on the train that needed accommodation, so they stayed in my living room and we spent a few days traveling. I met a solo traveler in Italy, and the following week we decided to hitchhike to various coastal cities. Their "selfish pursuit" brought me all sorts of value.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#208

Post by alisonatwork »

ip26 wrote: post #201
alisonatwork wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does traveling non-stop make you feel like you're side-stepping your role in society? One of the things i like best about traveling is that i have the time and mental energy to engage with the people around me. I eat at restaurants, i go to bars, i listen and share stories, i'll contribute to the local economy and perhaps put a smile on someone's face. When i am working i suppose you could say i am contributing t…

It kind of sounds like what you like best about travel is having free time. In other words it's not about how great travel is, but about how much you dislike like your (all-consuming) job.

I don't really hate my job. I think i would rather be a software developer than many other things. I do tend to work around 45 hours, but i don't take my work home with me. Well, not physically. It's more the emotional toll that it takes - having to be extroverted and "on" all through the week uses up all of my spoons. By the weekend i have nothing left.

I definitely would be happier if i had more free time. But my feeling is that i would also be a more productive member of society. At the very least i know i would engage more in the community. I am currently on day 5 of 12 days annual leave, and i am only just getting to the point where i feel i have the energy to venture out of my apartment. Surely this isn't the most efficient way to "contribute to society"?

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#209

Post by Causality1 »

rabidrat wrote: post #139
Causality1 wrote: post #32

I wonder what the money equivalent is of the term "first world problems". Millions of Americans spend sixty hours a week at work and still worry about whether they need to give up their health insurance this year so they can afford to replace their fifteen year old car because they'll lose their job if it breaks down and makes them late again.

I read this as "we should be content with being well-paid wage slaves because there are lots of underpaid wage slaves". Having to give our best 40+ hours every week to simply exist is soul-crushing and society-weakening. If you "need" to have a job, you are more like those struggling millions of Americans than you are like the moneyed elite, even if you aren't stressed about money on a day-to-day basis. You still are…

Happiness scales with income until about the $200,000 mark where it levels off. If you're making six digits you have more in common with Jeff Bezos than you do with someone making minimum wage.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#210

Post by mnowicki »

alexpetralia wrote: post #44
nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

To play devil's advocate, what is to come of deliberating on existential meaning at great length? Do you think you'll find an answer, rationally speaking (that is, using the tools of reason and logic)? Notably, Godel's incompleteness theorems suggest these tools may be insufficient. More specifically, if you try to rationally "justify" what you ought to be doing, you will always be able to - legitimately! - impugn it…

I agree with your point, just want to add; I think the point of existential deliberation at it's root is to overcome existential despair. I think for 'typical' people doing what feels right is an effective means to overcome this, but people who deliberate on it obsessively do so because they either don't know what feels right or are unable to extinguish their despair by doing what feels right, and are driven to search for answers. Like you said, trying to use reason to find some meaning in life is probably not going to be successful. Some people, I suspect, might be unable to stop obsessing about the meaning of life and that could be the cause of their despair. They'll never find an answer and get relief in that way, but they also don't have the power to stop themselves from trying
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