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Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

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Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#51

Post by ac29 »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #32
Gatsky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a ban on sale, ie a ban on commercial entities profiting from selling or producing tobacco products to <21 year olds. Since when do we need to protect the right to buy cigarettes in a convenient fashion? Last time I checked there isn’t anything about access to branded tobacco products in the UN charter of human rights. Nicotine is stupidly addictive. Smoking causes a long list of health problems, and when the…

The United States, from a legal perspective, considers anyone at or over the age of 18 to be an adult. There are only two areas that I can think of off the top of my head where this is not the case: the sale of alcohol, and now the sale of nicotine. Anyone who has been to college knows that the drinking age being 21 is pointless. It just means that an 18 year old who wants to drink will have someone buy it for them,…

In my opinion, setting the alcohol/nicotine age to 21 isn't so much to prevent 18 year olds from accessing it, its to prevent 14-16 year olds from access. Every high school has some 18 year olds - products legally available to them will trickle down to younger kids much easier than those that require purchasers to be 21.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#52

Post by ninthcat »

xref wrote: post #19
hellisothers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

“_I_ have to pay for _you_” is a particularly empty argument when there are no restrictions on calorie consumption, motorcycle usage, sedentary lifestyle, dangerous hobbies, etc. Also it is a similarly entitled argument to telling police “I pay your salary!”

What world do you live in? The government's primary function is to control the people. That's a descriptive statement.

> calorie consumption

Healthy food subsidies and soda/candy taxes. Restrictions on food stamps.

> motorcycle usage

Licensing, training, and helmet requirements, age minimum.

> dangerous hobbies

Licensing and training requirements, often with age minimums.

It'd be great if the government could reduce sedentary lifestyles, but making people do stuff tends to be harder than making them not do certain things.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#53

Post by anoncake »

adrr wrote: post #49
anoncake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone who smokes is addicted, not so for alcohol.

Alcohol is considered one of the most deadly and harmful drugs in world and is linked to the majority of domestic violence, fatal car accident, sexual assault etc.

Of course.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#54

Post by lm28469 »

alexfromapex wrote: post #8
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age gating is a bit stupid, but in the case of cigarettes, I'd be perfectly happy if no one of any age was able to use them, with exceptions for people who are already addicted.

It’s very stupid. When you are an adult you deserve to be able to make your own decisions. This is a great example of Congress going against the wishes of a huge portion of the voting population and “telling them what’s good for them”. It’s tacit erosion of freedom under the guise of something helpful and makes me ashamed of our Congress.

Yikes, I'd be glad not to pay for other people cigarette or alcohol induced cancers and other health issues. It's not the wild west anymore, your neighbor decisions impact your life directly.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#55

Post by lm28469 »

xref wrote: post #19
hellisothers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

“_I_ have to pay for _you_” is a particularly empty argument when there are no restrictions on calorie consumption, motorcycle usage, sedentary lifestyle, dangerous hobbies, etc. Also it is a similarly entitled argument to telling police “I pay your salary!”

Well you're not wrong, we should clearly thrive to enforce healthy life choices. What's the opposite of your argument? Beer is legal so coke should be because muh freedom?

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#56

Post by Gatsky »

listenallyall wrote: post #38
Gatsky wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this analogy with drinking. Alcohol is fundamentally different. It is critical to reduce the number of people who get addicted to nicotine, because it is very difficult to get them off it. Despite flaunting the age limit for drinking, I think it is still the case that there are fewer 18 year olds drinking alcohol with the drinking age at 21 than there would be if the drinking age was 18, and in many ways…

>> it is very difficult to get them off it and quitting drinking is easy? AA exists in every corner of the globe, for a reason.

If you don’t understand the difference then read these two articles:

https://ourworldindata.org/smoking https://ourworldindata.org/alcohol-consumption

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#57

Post by kazinator »

Gatsky wrote: post #56
listenallyall wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it is very difficult to get them off it and quitting drinking is easy? AA exists in every corner of the globe, for a reason.

If you don’t understand the difference then read these two articles: https://ourworldindata.org/smoking https://ourworldindata.org/alcohol-consumption

"Smoking deaths typically affect older populations: more than half of deaths occurred in people over 70 years old; 93% were over 50 years."

LOL! Death from age-related natural causes also affect older populations. Most of those who die of natural causes are over fifty.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#58

Post by xref »

ninthcat wrote: post #52
xref wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“_I_ have to pay for _you_” is a particularly empty argument when there are no restrictions on calorie consumption, motorcycle usage, sedentary lifestyle, dangerous hobbies, etc. Also it is a similarly entitled argument to telling police “I pay your salary!”

What world do you live in? The government's primary function is to control the people. That's a descriptive statement. > calorie consumption Healthy food subsidies and soda/candy taxes. Restrictions on food stamps. > motorcycle usage Licensing, training, and helmet requirements, age minimum. > dangerous hobbies Licensing and training requirements, often with age minimums. It'd be great if the government could reduce…

None of those things are banned, which was my point. OP was suggesting banning smoking entirely.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#59

Post by xref »

etrautmann wrote: post #47
xref wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“_I_ have to pay for _you_” is a particularly empty argument when there are no restrictions on calorie consumption, motorcycle usage, sedentary lifestyle, dangerous hobbies, etc. Also it is a similarly entitled argument to telling police “I pay your salary!”

...yes. We do pay the police and they should be in service of the public.

not sure what you’re arguing for with respect to yelling “I pay your salary!” at govt employees

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#60

Post by xref »

lm28469 wrote: post #55
xref wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“_I_ have to pay for _you_” is a particularly empty argument when there are no restrictions on calorie consumption, motorcycle usage, sedentary lifestyle, dangerous hobbies, etc. Also it is a similarly entitled argument to telling police “I pay your salary!”

Well you're not wrong, we should clearly thrive to enforce healthy life choices. What's the opposite of your argument? Beer is legal so coke should be because muh freedom?

A lot of things would probably be safer if legalized and regulated, seeing as a black market will fill the need otherwise
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