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Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

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Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#31

Post by kylek »

spunker540 wrote: post #7

I have some close friends who started smoking at 18, and by 21 were pretty hooked, would rather not smoke, but found quitting too difficult. I have a feeling this will do a good job of reducing addiction rates. At the same time I do feel like adults should be adults full-stop and think it’s ridiculous you can be drafted, vote and serve in military and not drink or smoke (or rent a car!). Maybe the age of adulthood sh…

I wish we'd change what's actually considered an adult. It's pretty arbitrary. Pretty sure I was dumber than a box of rocks when I was 18 (or even 21). At the same time I'm sure many under 18 could be considered adults. Unfortunate that rites of passage aren't a thing.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#32

Post by thatswrong0 »

Gatsky wrote: post #24
adrr wrote: post #2

It is bizarre we have our vice age at 21 but the age of adulthood is 18. You are responsible enough to vote, serve in the military and be charged as an adult in a court law but not responsible enough to drink or smoke.

This is a ban on sale, ie a ban on commercial entities profiting from selling or producing tobacco products to <21 year olds. Since when do we need to protect the right to buy cigarettes in a convenient fashion? Last time I checked there isn’t anything about access to branded tobacco products in the UN charter of human rights. Nicotine is stupidly addictive. Smoking causes a long list of health problems, and when the…

The United States, from a legal perspective, considers anyone at or over the age of 18 to be an adult. There are only two areas that I can think of off the top of my head where this is not the case: the sale of alcohol, and now the sale of nicotine.

Anyone who has been to college knows that the drinking age being 21 is pointless. It just means that an 18 year old who wants to drink will have someone buy it for them, or they'll go to a party and drink jungle juice, or they'll get a fake ID. Having a drinking age at all, IMO, sets up people to seriously hurt themselves when they turn 21 if their parents shelter them.

Barring that last point (since ODing on nicotine like you can on alcohol is a lot tougher), the same will now be the case for smoking / vaping.

From a safety perspective, I would rather have 18 year olds buying legitimate juul pods (although the safety of these should be regulated more heavily) than buying sketchy fake shit off the internet or second hand from a friend.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#33

Post by adrr »

hellisothers wrote: post #12
alexfromapex wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very stupid. When you are an adult you deserve to be able to make your own decisions. This is a great example of Congress going against the wishes of a huge portion of the voting population and “telling them what’s good for them”. It’s tacit erosion of freedom under the guise of something helpful and makes me ashamed of our Congress.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

I’d argue making illegal doesn’t prevent use. Does the 21 age limit prevent underage drinking? Education is the key factor in preventing use.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#34

Post by thatswrong0 »

umvi wrote: post #6
haskaalo wrote: post #5

Not from United States. However, wouldn't it increase the sales of the black market?

Perhaps, but as long as there is a net drop in usage it's still a win. Who wants to bother buying black market cigarettes in 2020? It's like the worst drug ever - mild-to-no buzz, highly addictive/expensive, gives you cancer

> Perhaps, but as long as there is a net drop in usage it's still a win.

That's not how that works. At all.

If you get 1 less person to vape, but you get 3 people who were vaping seriously sick / they die from black market goods, that's probably not a net win.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#35

Post by umvi »

sumedh wrote: post #22
hellisothers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

> it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience and yet you can join the army and kill some people before you have the wisdom of age and experience?

How many US army enlisted have killed a person, I wonder? I'd guess <1% (unless suicides count)

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#36

Post by Gatsky »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #32
Gatsky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a ban on sale, ie a ban on commercial entities profiting from selling or producing tobacco products to <21 year olds. Since when do we need to protect the right to buy cigarettes in a convenient fashion? Last time I checked there isn’t anything about access to branded tobacco products in the UN charter of human rights. Nicotine is stupidly addictive. Smoking causes a long list of health problems, and when the…

The United States, from a legal perspective, considers anyone at or over the age of 18 to be an adult. There are only two areas that I can think of off the top of my head where this is not the case: the sale of alcohol, and now the sale of nicotine. Anyone who has been to college knows that the drinking age being 21 is pointless. It just means that an 18 year old who wants to drink will have someone buy it for them,…

I don't buy this analogy with drinking. Alcohol is fundamentally different. It is critical to reduce the number of people who get addicted to nicotine, because it is very difficult to get them off it. Despite flaunting the age limit for drinking, I think it is still the case that there are fewer 18 year olds drinking alcohol with the drinking age at 21 than there would be if the drinking age was 18, and in many ways that is all that matters. Your argument would also justify reducing the drinking age to X, because there are some people younger than X that access alcohol illegally. Importantly, a higher drinking age also stops beverage makers from targeting products to younger demographics.

I disagree with the harm minimisation/safety argument because the primary harm minimisation for tobacco products comes from preventing their use at all.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#37

Post by umvi »

adrr wrote: post #33
hellisothers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

I’d argue making illegal doesn’t prevent use. Does the 21 age limit prevent underage drinking? Education is the key factor in preventing use.

Doesn't prevent use, but definitely reduces use.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#38

Post by listenallyall »

Gatsky wrote: post #36
thatswrong0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States, from a legal perspective, considers anyone at or over the age of 18 to be an adult. There are only two areas that I can think of off the top of my head where this is not the case: the sale of alcohol, and now the sale of nicotine. Anyone who has been to college knows that the drinking age being 21 is pointless. It just means that an 18 year old who wants to drink will have someone buy it for them,…

I don't buy this analogy with drinking. Alcohol is fundamentally different. It is critical to reduce the number of people who get addicted to nicotine, because it is very difficult to get them off it. Despite flaunting the age limit for drinking, I think it is still the case that there are fewer 18 year olds drinking alcohol with the drinking age at 21 than there would be if the drinking age was 18, and in many ways…

>> it is very difficult to get them off it

and quitting drinking is easy? AA exists in every corner of the globe, for a reason.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#39

Post by cameronfraser »

sumedh wrote: post #22
hellisothers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

> it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience and yet you can join the army and kill some people before you have the wisdom of age and experience?

Most people in the military are not in combat positions. Only 1% of their forces are combat and out of those only 10% actually see combat. That being said, the lack of age gate for the military should spark discussion about increasing the age of enlistment rather than justification for lowering the age people can buy cigarettes.
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