What happens when your career becomes your whole identity • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#121

Post by phkahler » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

thrwaway69 wrote: post #108

tomc1985 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my own attempts at reasoning this stuff the only meaning that I've been able to find is that life is meaningless. Therefore the only thing to do is be comfortable with that null of an answer, and live as you see fit.

same but that leads to another locked door for me. Statistically speaking, the quality of life I want to get (expectations reduced by 5x for being extra cautious) still has a chance of 2-5% given my background of ever being real. Why should I place my bet on such a shitty investment package which most people get for nothing? Fixing my current problems alone would take me years and that will put me near average person…

Sounds like you have a goal. Making progress toward a goal can be satisfying. Even more so than reaching the goal. One problem I see is that you are comparing yourself to others (you mention the average person). Whatever landed you where you're at is unique to you. It's your challenge to overcome and should not be compared to anyone else. There's only you today and you tomorrow. Keep moving toward that goal even if it takes a lifetime.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#122

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #110

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't fully considered this, as I haven't crossed that bridge. A naive approach would dictate holding a 100/0 stock/bonds portfolio, which would never necessitate rebalancing. To date, I've likely experienced some drift, but not meaningfully since my portfolio composition was 99/1. However, of the stock portion of my portfolio, I do plan to hold about one-third international; so I should rebalance annually. This…

IIRC the Trinity study (where the 4% SWR comes from) was for portfolios with a decent chunk of bonds? And that it only claimed that SWR for a horizon of 30 years? As in, running to zero in 31 years was counted as a success. Separately, not to rain on your parade, but I'd really be worried that 4% might not be feasible based on current market conditions - that study was based on a period when the US was rising into th…

That skepticism is valid. 3.5% might be the new 4%. Personally, I don't worry too much about returns because even though U.S. standing has declined, our returns have been incredible, mostly due to stock buybacks. Corporations have been the net purchasers, by a significant margin, in the past decade [0], somewhat driven by debt and specifically, low interest rates. Returns are increasingly untethered from actual performance. For these reasons, the U.S.' waning hegemony may not lower returns.

[0]: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4271159-corporations-bigges...

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#123

Post by 0kl » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #105

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

What is your takeaway? What did you mine from really thinking about the meaning and direction you want to take with your life?

*clarification: I mean it earnestly, as I have not done anything that you have.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#124

Post by Hnrobert42 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

brookside wrote: post #118

grecy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

You are sure are doing a whole lot of book promotion on here and on reddit! This may come across as harsh, but driving on highways, pan-american or not, doesn't strike me as much of an adventure in the current era.

Wow. I would offer this comment does come across as unnecessarily antagonistic. Other than the links, the poster didn’t mention their book at all. Further, they didn’t claim to be adventurous as much as contemplative.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#125

Post by hprotagonist » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

That drum major instinct is a real fucker if you don’t see it for what it is and point it in the right direction. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/dru...

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#126

Post by 0kl » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

I don’t know if this is fair to say. The trope exists, certainly, but I don’t know if we can pass judgement on a way someone has chosen to live their life just because it would not fulfill us.

It’s absolutely true that many people regret prioritizing their career later, but there are also quite a few people regret not investing in their career as well.

My takeaway watching many people regret, and having regrets my own - or as you put it, my “debt coming due,” is that it is up to each of us to do our best to predict what our future selves will want. That’s all there is to it, and it’s unproductive to say “careers are bad,” or, alternatively, “focusing on family is bad,” or any variation of the above.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#127

Post by 0kl » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

I disagree that “enmeshment” is always bad. What we do, especially when we are fortunate enough to choose and enjoy our careers, are fundamental to who we are and the narrative that work is solely there to provide income is not always true.

We spend the majority of our time, effort, and thought around our work. To say that none of this should touch on our identity would be doing a disservice to the majority of our time spent living.

It is true, that some people are not “enmeshed”, but are consumed with work, but what about the people that do find happiness and fulfillment in their “high-powered” job? Dan’s failure to recognize his own needs are not a reflection of “enmeshment” being bad, but a reminder that if you do not pay attention to your own wants and desires you will be unhappy, regardless of how successful you are. That if you do need the job and hate it, to make sure you’re making the right trade-offs to have a happy life - see the recommendations in the article for how.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#128

Post by grecy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:37 PM UTC

0kl wrote: post #123

grecy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

What is your takeaway? What did you mine from really thinking about the meaning and direction you want to take with your life? *clarification: I mean it earnestly, as I have not done anything that you have.

My takeaway is that I must make decisions and take action if I am to live the life I want, in a manner that makes me happy. Nobody else will do that for me, and if I live my life on autopilot I will be extraordinarily disappointed when I look back over my life and see that I never took life by the horns and charted my own course.

It's on me, and that is equal measures exciting and (some days) terrifying.

I lost my Mum to cancer earlier this year, and she was exactly 30 years older than me. If I live to the same age as her I only have 30 summers left for all the hiking and camping and exploring I want to do. I only have 30 winters left for all the snowboarding and winter fun I want to have. Most important of all I only have 30 years left to spend time with family, friends, community, food, laughs and good times.

I have a lot that I want to cram into those 30 years, and I'm going to be my own pilot to make damn sure it happens.

In my humble opinion, as it applies to me and me alone:

Earning money is the worst of all false gods to chase. We in the western world have lost our path, and it's making us miserable. I met thousands of people in Africa that are happier and more joyous than virtually everyone I've ever met in Canada, Australia or the US.

Money is not the path the happiness, and I don't ever want to fall into that. I only ever want to earn enough money for food and shelter, and every minute otherwise I don't want to be at work making someone else rich. I want to spend those remaining 30 years enjoying myself and bringing happiness to those in my life, not earning money thinking it will somehow get me there in an abstract way.

But, what do I know? I'm only 37 after all. I have a lot to learn.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#129

Post by thrwaway69 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #121

thrwaway69 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same but that leads to another locked door for me. Statistically speaking, the quality of life I want to get (expectations reduced by 5x for being extra cautious) still has a chance of 2-5% given my background of ever being real. Why should I place my bet on such a shitty investment package which most people get for nothing? Fixing my current problems alone would take me years and that will put me near average person…

Sounds like you have a goal. Making progress toward a goal can be satisfying. Even more so than reaching the goal. One problem I see is that you are comparing yourself to others (you mention the average person). Whatever landed you where you're at is unique to you. It's your challenge to overcome and should not be compared to anyone else. There's only you today and you tomorrow. Keep moving toward that goal even if i…

I am aware of that. I am not comparing my experience but rather taking average as a baseline.

If 40 out of 50 people end up in poverty in my neighborhood, then chances are I will given how similar metrics for ending in poverty is. Of course it's not always good but not sure where I can draw a line when I feel 'something' is not satisfying.

You can compare it to people who are unaware that they are depressed or have mental issues after pressure to accept it and reinforced narrative that everyone goes through it surrounding them.

Some comparison is needed :/ and it is too hard for someone who feels mostly the same when achieving something valued by society vs achieving nothing. Enjoying the journey is cool and all but it's a trap if all your motivation or enjoyment comes from self praise and you are not dependent on external stimuli for it. Being too critical of your self can be addicting itself but I haven't really find a way to balance things out and I doubt I ever will unless I change the fundamental blocks of who I have been so far. That is a disturbingly challenging thing to do and seems more effort than being a druggie and early death :3

I wish the voice in my head had a turn off button ugh. It's always a second person commenting on everything it sees.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#130

Post by blueboo » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #105

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

All very impressive -- hope this guy is as happy as his scrupulously cultivated brand requires and celebrates.

But I wonder if this represents a cautionary tale -- someone who took their non-"desk job" and assiduously commoditized their adventures. The 110% workaholism never stopped.

Click here to buy the book, follow the instagram, subscribe to the YouTube.

Or maybe this is what can happen if you don't indulge your wanderlust in your early 20s. The scariest, hardest and most rewarding thing always turns out to be connecting with the people around you. Instead, "Rabbit, Run"...