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What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

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Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#91

Post by mmsimanga »

We have a saying back home that goes, "umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu" which literally translates to a person is a person because of other people. So in effect in Africa we care more about people than our jobs. Trouble is when your job is managing national electricity company it isn't a good approach because we tend to put our relationships above our jobs. Result is patchy electricity supply. It is one (just one not the main reason) of the reasons we are behind when it comes to development. Development as in clean running water, functional clinics.

I sort of straddle both worlds. In software development you need to get it right. At home people are more important. As an example just today in-laws visiting where supposed to go to see touristy sights at 11 in the morning. They eventually left at 3pm because we all had loads to catch up on. People first :-).

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#92

Post by locacorten »

mmsimanga wrote: post #91

We have a saying back home that goes, "umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu" which literally translates to a person is a person because of other people. So in effect in Africa we care more about people than our jobs. Trouble is when your job is managing national electricity company it isn't a good approach because we tend to put our relationships above our jobs. Result is patchy electricity supply. It is one (just one not the ma…

All drawings, paintings, and art I saw in Africa, all of them depict people in a group. There is never a single person depicted in any imagery.

You won't find any Mona Lisa in African art. :-)

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#93

Post by mathgladiator »

I recently started therapy because I relate to this. I'm a definitely a workaholic and I enjoy coding as an artform.

I found myself using work as an escape mechanism for my mother's suicide, and it has taken me 11 years to realize that was a mistake and I should focus less on career and more on being a caring social person.

I have a really nice job and I'm thankful for what it has given me, but it is clear that I have to walk away and work on being happy rather than productive.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#95

Post by gist »

alexpetralia wrote: post #44
nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

To play devil's advocate, what is to come of deliberating on existential meaning at great length? Do you think you'll find an answer, rationally speaking (that is, using the tools of reason and logic)? Notably, Godel's incompleteness theorems suggest these tools may be insufficient. More specifically, if you try to rationally "justify" what you ought to be doing, you will always be able to - legitimately! - impugn it…

> EDIT: One other thing to note is that people who are fairly content with their lives don't often ponder _why_ their life is meaningful.

Is meaningful the same as happy? What I think is there are a great deal of unhappy people who attempt to make it as if their thinking and point of the way they feel is representative of what others are like or even should be. Many of these people have either things going right in their life (job, relationships, money) and are still not happy (maybe because they suffer from depression). Or they have addictions they can't shake and are not happy. Or they are simply trying to be something they are not and are not happy.

Small example - Do I question why I comment on HN? There is no reason I just like to say things. I don't need to break down any impact other than 'it is something I want to do that makes me feel something that I like to feel'. Ditto for other things.

Look at how presumptions the title of the article is to begin with "What Happens When Your Career Becomes Your Whole Identity". Right off the top it is saying that it's wrong for your career to be 'your entire identity'.

Would anyone say 'what happens when being healthy makes you happy?'. What's this judgement with deciding what is enough for one person is the same for most people?

Then things like this:

> Dan’s story is not uncommon. Many people with high-pressure jobs find themselves unhappy with their careers, despite working hard their whole lives to get to their current position. Hating your job is one thing — but what happens if you identify so closely with your work that hating your job means hating yourself?

Not uncommon? Why does that matter? If I have a hobby that 'is not common' or feel a way 'that is common' so what?

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#96

Post by gist »

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

> High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated

Problem is when people are in 'high status careers' that can't take the pressure or the heat of the high status career. And try to keep up with those who do.

I am not sure you find many athletes who once they make it complain that they wish they had chosen another path. My guess on why that is? Less luck involved (sure luck with everything). Less luck means more likely the strong or talented survive and they are appreciative for what they have and less likely to crumble and complain.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#97

Post by AlexCoventry »

turk73 wrote: post #75
momokoko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in exactly the same boat. Could not have said it better myself.

Me too, but I need help. I have been working on ideas for my "2nd career," well, really it will be my 3rd, but that's beside the point. I need a way out of tech. I have enough money already, I just need a freaking path to another kind of work. It's not been easy. It's either I do what I am doing or it's $15/hr Target cashier type of job. Not bashing the Target cashiers, just making a point.

If you have enough money, why restrict yourself to gainful employment?

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#98

Post by draw_down »

Jeema101 wrote: post #17
nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

It's because when you're young, you're just happy to be making it on your own. But I'm not sure everyone does reach the second stage. Some people seem to be content just living their lives and enjoying themselves without really wondering if they could have done more or whether they need to leave the world a better place than when they arrived. I think maybe it depends on how much exposure to death one has had. Death…

I think the desire to make a mark on the world, leave behind some “legacy”, etc is itself a denial of mortality, and in some cases/to some degree a desire for validation from others. If you can put down that desire for validation, and come to accept that we’ll all soon be dust, you can focus on living a life that works for you.

I think society expects individuals to “live for some higher purpose” because that’s what produces beneficial outcomes for the society. Hard to argue with that. But I have found that the times I lived my life in accordance with those expectations were the times I felt most trapped and resentful. And conversely, when I focused on doing what I wanted, I encountered resentment from others for not “sticking to the script” (living for their benefit). But I’ve found that to be a heckuva lot easier to live with.

I still help others in my life quite a bit, but it’s on my terms, rather than a structural obligation built into my lifestyle.

Of course, I wouldn’t deny that some who attempt to impact the world succeed. And some of those impacts have benefited those who come after. And I doubt the world would be a better place if everyone were like me, but then that is true of anyone.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#99

Post by mathgladiator »

cryptica wrote: post #57
nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

For me work is what I enjoy the most about life. I would do it for free - In fact I worked on open source projects for free for almost a decade. Including some successful/popular ones. That said I still feel burned out. I've come to realize that not only did the work I do for free not give me any financial advantage (which I expected), but the people who've hired me over the past few years don't seem to recognize tha…

So, there is an important distinction between technical skills vs the softer political skills. I ran into this problem as I had up-leveled myself before a job, but I was a complete n00b at the people problem.

Sadly, the people problem dominates most companies, and even pure technical tracks require people skills of a different nature due to the parallel power structures.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#100

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

echelon wrote: post #82
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. large cap (S&P 500), international stocks, some individual public companies (RSUs/ESPP), some bonds. I don't own any real estate.

Do you intend to sell your large cap holdings as they accrue in value every year? How do you rebalance your portfolio to account for under performers and handle cap gains? Sorry for asking so many questions! This is super informative. Thanks! :)

I haven't fully considered this, as I haven't crossed that bridge. A naive approach would dictate holding a 100/0 stock/bonds portfolio, which would never necessitate rebalancing. To date, I've likely experienced some drift, but not meaningfully since my portfolio composition was 99/1. However, of the stock portion of my portfolio, I do plan to hold about one-third international; so I should rebalance annually. This can be done in tax-advantaged accounts, to avoid capital gains taxes. (A common FI strategy is to maximize contributions to tax-advantaged accounts, as I do). I handle capital gains, currently, by simply not selling taxable investments.
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