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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#441

Post by dpcan »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

My son went to college for Physics. I stressed to him that getting a high paying career in Physics with all the competition out there will be like landing a major role in a movie, he'll need to be the best of the best, and still be ready for rejection, possibly putting him into a situation where he'll take any job to stay afloat.

It took him 4 months in college before discovering an Engineering field he was more interested in than Physics. It wasn't my fear-speak that did it, he just discovered how interesting it was on his own and now wants to pursue it.

My sigh of relief could be heard throughout the galaxy.

We are also at a state school and paying all of his college expenses out of pocket except for books and a small stipend of financial aid. So, being in a career that would yield a high paying job after he left school was very important to us.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#442

Post by al2o3cr »

Can't wait for the followup article written by Ella in 15 years: "Today I told my parents they were going to have to get used to living in a cardboard box because they didn't save for retirement. They asked me to help pay for a nice assisted-living facility, but I explained to them how important it was not to make financial decisions that could complicate your life for a long time based on emotions."

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#443

Post by turk73 »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #268

Just. Make. College. Free.

Troll.

Free = infinite demand. I don't think that will ever work anymore than throwing open the floodgates at the border and letting in all the world's surplus population who want to come and get free benes from us and wipe their asses on our flag.

When something is given away for free, people value it less. So making college "tuition free" e.g. saddled to the taxpayer, is not going to produce quality graduates or get us any kind of ROI for us lowly, un-represented, long-suffering American taxpayers. So I suppose if we make it "free" that could be final nail in the coffin.

With the limitless debt situation we have in the US right now, the Fed could just print off another $2-3 Trillion and paper over the whole damn thing. All of us will be poorer, of course. You like getting paid in Monopoly money, right? Zimbabwe dollars all right with you?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#444

Post by lsc »

pw wrote: post #438
lsc wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I think about this a lot. I know a lot of really good sysadmins with no education; like of the people I consider really good sysadmins, close to half might not have degrees, and this is one of the reasons I equate my job to the trades. (I mean, along with the fact that our job is to create and maintain infrastructure so that other people can work) I know a fair number of software engineers with no formal educatio…

It's a tangent, but I'd love to hear more about your decision to pursue the degree at nau.edu.

well, the equation on the "competency based" degrees for me is essentially that they are super way less prestigious than traditional degrees, but they are the only way, as far as I can tell, to get an education without a "you are on time all the time or you fail" condition, as I have a very hard time being on time (and am largely not budget constrained, so the "pay for time" part of most competency based degrees is not as big a deal for me as it would be if I was very slowly earning a degree while working a less remunerative job.) -

'failure' in academia seems, to me, to be way harsher than failure in industry; Nobody brings up even pretty big failures of mine that occured even a few years back in industry, but my high school academic record, more than two decades back, still haunts my admissions efforts, so as far as I can tell, community college is the most prestigious route open to me, and I need to execute almost perfectly to graduate to the next level. I probably won't execute perfectly, especially as my work is a higher priority than school for me, (and my work record isn't perfect either) so I think this is the most realistic route to some sort of undergrad degree, even though I generally work a lot better in person than remote.

There are a lot of 'competency based' programs, and while I think something like that is the best chance I have of getting a degree without permanently marring my record in ways that makes doing academic things harder in the future, I have no idea if I picked the best competency based option. I do personally think that on the low end, you are way better off with a government school than with a private school; that was a big part of my decision. But, for instance, a friend was telling me about western governors university, and... that might have been better? they have an actual CS degree, which would definitely get me further.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#445

Post by washadjeffmad »

jki275 wrote: post #409
btilly wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have to be in a combat role to see combat, get PTSD, or get injured. My nephews serve as examples. Their non-combat roles were heavy construction, setting up communication networks, and airplane mechanic. However all three actually saw combat. 2 wound up with PTSD. And one wound up seriously injured when the plane that was delivering him to a secret mission got shot down en route. In fact according to some…

Anybody can "some estimate" anything. My guess is that they're using figures from the massive amount of fraudulent PTSD claims submitted to the VA. PTSD is the easiest diagnosis to get through the VA, and thus it is rife with fraud. As a result, it is quite difficult to get anything approaching accurate or useful numbers for it.

Not everyone will develop PTSD. Of the ones that do, not all who develop it recognize it immediately. Of those, even fewer will seek treatment. Combat is not the only way to develop it. Some might only develop it after ruminating on events later on, or failing to adjust to civilian life. What's certain is that not treating PTSD can cause much bigger and more dangerous problems. And unless you're a doctor, I wouldn't throw 'fraud' around so easily.

It sounds like you're one of the ideal ones for your line of work, though; brains that are less susceptible to stress damage are rare. It's why not everyone is fit to become a police officer or give talks in front of big crowds. Others have an adrenaline sensitivity or a panic groove etched so deeply in their brains that they'll forget their names if you talk to them when they don't expect it.

I'm also assuming you entered the military voluntarily. There's a predisposition for certain brains to take on and thrive in certain careers. As a DWB friend of mine put it about the career mercs he treated, "They aren't psychopaths, just real mean sons of bitches."

You don't have to like people who aren't built as tough as you, but that doesn't mean they're faking.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#446

Post by jki275 »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #445
jki275 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody can "some estimate" anything. My guess is that they're using figures from the massive amount of fraudulent PTSD claims submitted to the VA. PTSD is the easiest diagnosis to get through the VA, and thus it is rife with fraud. As a result, it is quite difficult to get anything approaching accurate or useful numbers for it.

Not everyone will develop PTSD. Of the ones that do, not all who develop it recognize it immediately. Of those, even fewer will seek treatment. Combat is not the only way to develop it. Some might only develop it after ruminating on events later on, or failing to adjust to civilian life. What's certain is that not treating PTSD can cause much bigger and more dangerous problems. And unless you're a doctor, I wouldn't…

I’m well acquainted with how ptsd works.

The vast majority of the people in the military are never exposed to anything at all. They do a job and they get paid for it. They’re no more likely to develop ptsd than the local grocer, plumber or electrician. Many of them are exactly a grocer, plumber, or electrician with a military ID card. They’re not “Mercs” any more than the local grocer...

Everyone on active duty today entered voluntarily as well.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#447

Post by pw »

lsc wrote: post #444
pw wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tangent, but I'd love to hear more about your decision to pursue the degree at nau.edu.

well, the equation on the "competency based" degrees for me is essentially that they are super way less prestigious than traditional degrees, but they are the only way, as far as I can tell, to get an education without a "you are on time all the time or you fail" condition, as I have a very hard time being on time (and am largely not budget constrained, so the "pay for time" part of most competency based degrees is n…

Interesting. So are you learning anything from the degree or are just you doing it to get the credential?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#448

Post by lsc »

pw wrote: post #447
lsc wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, the equation on the "competency based" degrees for me is essentially that they are super way less prestigious than traditional degrees, but they are the only way, as far as I can tell, to get an education without a "you are on time all the time or you fail" condition, as I have a very hard time being on time (and am largely not budget constrained, so the "pay for time" part of most competency based degrees is n…

Interesting. So are you learning anything from the degree or are just you doing it to get the credential?

It involves a lot of essays... I'm learning a lot about constrained writing, something I'm pretty terrible at as-is. I mean, most of the actual information systems stuff is old hat, but there's a lot to be said for improving my writing to a particular format, and maybe it's best to do that on a subject you already know about? (Interestingly, feedback from my boss has been that I need to improve my constrained writing, that my design documents and things of that nature need to be better, more numerous, and more on topic and to the prescribed format)

It's really interesting 'cause the feedback at the online classes feels... a lot harsher than any I have ever gotten at work; I wonder how much of that is just what is expected in school vs. work? or if it's a class thing, like the school isn't prestigious, whereas most jobs i've had, well, it's usually obvious that I have a lot of other choices... or maybe that I'm really bad at this, and at work, well, there's enough I'm really good at that people treat me somewhat diffidently even in the areas where I'm really bad? I don't know, but it's an interesting experience in a lot of ways.

I mean, it's not bad really, just... really different from how I'm used to people giving me feedback.

But... yeah, I mean, to me it feels like you are paying for essay feedback. Like, they also provide PDFs, videos and reading materials, but I can get all those things on my own; it's the essay feedback, I think, that is the individualized thing.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#449

Post by lsc »

pw wrote: post #447
lsc wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, the equation on the "competency based" degrees for me is essentially that they are super way less prestigious than traditional degrees, but they are the only way, as far as I can tell, to get an education without a "you are on time all the time or you fail" condition, as I have a very hard time being on time (and am largely not budget constrained, so the "pay for time" part of most competency based degrees is n…

Interesting. So are you learning anything from the degree or are just you doing it to get the credential?

But you asked about motive, and that's different from how I responded. I do need to get better at constrained writing, and to learn even really basic level management type writing, and while this is certainly a goal, a degree is also something I want; I... would like to do some graduate-level work, and that seems difficult without an undergrad.

Also, a degree is an important plan B... I mean, as long as I'm employed where I am, and as long as the industry doesn't change, a degree in and of itself won't help me all that much, though basic management writing might. but if industry changes, there are a lot of cases where having a degree means you are legally middle class. Right now, the pay cut I'd take working anywhere else in the world would mean I should probably just travel on vacation, but if that ever changes? a degree is almost essential to do my job for a non-US company.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#450

Post by pw »

lsc wrote: post #449
pw wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So are you learning anything from the degree or are just you doing it to get the credential?

But you asked about motive, and that's different from how I responded. I do need to get better at constrained writing, and to learn even really basic level management type writing, and while this is certainly a goal, a degree is also something I want; I... would like to do some graduate-level work, and that seems difficult without an undergrad. Also, a degree is an important plan B... I mean, as long as I'm employed…

No worries about being off-topic. I’m more than happy to listen to your unconstrained writing. I always enjoy your comments and find you have a unique and valuable perspective.

Anyway, what sort of graduate work would you like to do and why?

And I’m surprised your academic performance in high school is still a hinderance. Do you also have not great test scores?

If you could get into someplace reasonably prestigious, would you go back to school full-time? Or is being able to go to school while still working important for you?

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