A B.A., even in fine art, still opens up a ton of okay-paying jobs. Jobs like paralegals, retail managers, and HR often require a bachelors degree but don’t care what that degree was in.
But you can get a generic degree in English or business admin at a community college and have a fine career as a paralegal. Don’t see why you need to go to an expensive art school.
Bachelors and associates degrees aren’t equivalent. Whenever I’ve seen a job posting asking for a degree, they explicitly ask for a 4 year degree.
But..you can get a six figure salary with an in-state public school too.
Sometimes. The fancy consulting firms place a huge premium on those elite private schools and pay huge salaries. University prestige matters for jobs and salary, even if it doesn't matter for how much you learn.
Yeah but the truly elite private schools are pretty good at aid, I think it's the "borderline" elites where one would end up with substantially more debt than staying in state (on average anyway). I don't have any data but I would guess the fancy consulting firm recruitment potential drops off at a similar rate as the aid amounts do.
Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves
Does art school make a person a better artist? I would argue not really -- especially in a day in age where so much advanced art instruction is available for free. When a company or person wants to commission you, do they look at your degree or your portfolio? The only real benefit of art college is more contacts to sell on your personality. $300,000 for that $75,000/yr college is a huge marketing budget for someone…
Art creates meaning within contexts. It's certainly possible to learn to reason about context working on your own, but formal schooling forces you to do so and ensures it happens.
From my own experience hiring designers, those with formal schooling in art tend to make better creative leaders, like managers or creative directors.
I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…
Personally, I think learning a trade should be an option in high school. A trade is better than a high school diploma both in pay and practical usefulness, whereas "college prep" is almost always useless. If you learn a trade and dislike it, you should have as much time as possible to pivot to something else. I think high schoolers should have two choices: - Associates Degree track at a local university - apprentices…
There are lots of trade oriented magnate schools in LA and many of them could carry you right into LATTC then after that making six figures and full benefits boring heavy rail under the earth. The trade shortage is being tackled, in major cities at least.
I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…
The trades also tend to be unionized with good workers' comp and disability pensions, though.
It's good that they pay for it but I still wouldn't want to be subjected to an opioid prescription for the rest of my life.
I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…
Taking your comment to its logical conclusion, then, no one should become an electrician. Too dangerous. Low (relative to a degree) pay. Well, who then is going to fulfill this necessary role?
Perhaps people who really want to be electricians because they like the trade itself?
The truth might be more nuanced though. Some colleges have better ROI than others. I assume there is a lack of good data on most colleges, because people who see the actual ROI on any given college wouldn't go to bad schools and schools had more pressure to lower their rates (or invest in their programs).
> Some colleges have better ROI than others. As is always pointed out when someone mentions ROI: No one should look at ROI when it comes to colleges. You can end up with more wealth going to a lower ROI school. What matters is how much more you earn than your costs (difference, not ratio). Spending $10K total for a very cheap undergrad and earning $30K/year means an ROI of 3. Spending $100K total for undergrad and ea…
Additionally, you have to be careful how the rankings source the salary number. Obviously distribution of majors at different schools is a big factor, but on top of that many rankings look at earnings within 5 years of graduation. If your program tends to produce doctors, lawyers, etc. (in particular when they choose to further specialize) the salary 5 years after graduation is obviously not very good, but lifetime earning likely is. My guess is if you take a random Ivy and a random state school, the Ivy is going to have a notably higher percentage that pursues a graduate degree, which means those 5 year numbers probably underrate the Ivy.
Yep, exactly. I went down this "trades are great!" rabbit hole a while ago because I had a cousin who had a friend telling him: "You can be making 6 figures in 5 years as an electrician!" I was surprised when I found out his buddy didn't have a bridge to sell him as well. Your career is not just about money earned. It is about the lifestyle. It is about your physical health over a long period of time. It is about you…
yeah because the average dev guy can run marathons, right?
Working as a dev doesn't inherently prevent one from being healthy and active enough to be able to run a marathon, just gotta spend some time being active in your spare time. But killed knees and back due to a job in trades certainly will prevent you from running a marathon, no matter what you do with your free time.
My sister and I basically copied what our parents did. I got a degree in engineering like my dad (but pivoted to data science), and my sister got a degree in elementary education like my mom. She works much harder than me but earns significantly less and frequently comments about how massive of a mistake it was to go into teaching. I'm not really sure what the lesson is here other than that the world isn't fair. From…
People are not compensated to their value, they are compensated to their rarity. A lot of people can (in theory) teach elementary aged kids, a lot fewer folks can architect skyscrapers or perform brain surgery.