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Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

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Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#231

Post by asah »

scarface74 wrote: post #226
brownbat wrote: post #195

This is a really interesting addition to the literature if you dig through it, with subtle distinctions between income gains and wealth gains and interactions with demographics. It's not a simple "college ain't what it used to be" story. The biggest puzzle is how to explain why recent grads still command significantly higher incomes than nongrads without accumulating significantly more wealth. Increasing tuition is a…

You have three parties: schools, financial institutions, and teenagers. You have four - parents. Students can’t get a loan without filling out FAFSA which requires their parents involvement. Parents could guide children in the right direction.

Only if they're financially literate, AND their experience (often from their era) applies to their kids.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#232

Post by CydeWeys »

seem_2211 wrote: post #85
john_moscow wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue averaging across all degrees is makes no sense. STEM degrees do pay off. Liberal arts degrees can pay if you want to boost a specific skill and have a solid plan for using it. E.g. getting an English degree to become a more persuasive speaker while promoting your otherwise sound and solidly executed startup. Aside from those 2 examples there are plenty of colleges with a business model of selling overpr…

Does STEM actually pay off, or does engineering/technology pay off? I've got a few friends who work in science, and it seems to be a pretty poorly paying field, with a real lack of job prospects, unless you secure a job at a government research department.

It's really just the engineering degrees that pay off.

The sciences degrees are only obviously worth it if you then go on to become a doctor, but that's more schooling and the undergrad degree isn't a strict requirement anyway.

Most of my friends with degrees in math, physics, etc., just ended up being software engineers anyway. So the degree "paid off" for them in the same way a CS degree would, but they would've been better served just going CS.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#233

Post by kryogen1c »

brownbat wrote: post #195

This is a really interesting addition to the literature if you dig through it, with subtle distinctions between income gains and wealth gains and interactions with demographics. It's not a simple "college ain't what it used to be" story. The biggest puzzle is how to explain why recent grads still command significantly higher incomes than nongrads without accumulating significantly more wealth. Increasing tuition is a…

>Most notably, the inability to discharge school debt in bankruptcy since 2005 may have had strong effects.

>That last legal change remains bewildering to me.

I have done no research on the matter, but my parents told me that doctors would go to school on loan for 7+ years, start a practice, and discharge all their loan debt through bankruptcy.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#234

Post by CydeWeys »

someguydave wrote: post #215
mdorazio wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the engineering field, pay is massively different for different types of engineers. Civil and mechanical engineers generally aren't making anywhere near what software engineers make in top markets, for example. Similar story with chemists working in biotech vs. physicists doing fundamental research.

“Software engineering” is not a recognized engineering discipline.

Who cares, though. It's known what is meant by that phrase.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#235

Post by rayiner »

brownbat wrote: post #195

This is a really interesting addition to the literature if you dig through it, with subtle distinctions between income gains and wealth gains and interactions with demographics. It's not a simple "college ain't what it used to be" story. The biggest puzzle is how to explain why recent grads still command significantly higher incomes than nongrads without accumulating significantly more wealth. Increasing tuition is a…

The three parties are schools, teenagers, and the government. More than 90% of existing student loans, and nearly all new loans, are issued by the government.

The student loan system will cost the government $170 billion in losses over 10 years, because interest doesn’t cover money written off due to hardships and loan forgiveness. The non-dischargability of student loans protects the government from further losses.

Non-dischargability is a reasonable feature given the other aspect of federal student loans: they offer income-based repayment. Under Obama’s REPAYE, your loan payments are capped at 15% of your discretionary income.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#236

Post by dahart »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #175
dahart wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I understand the question & goal, and maybe this is the right way to go about it, but I’m not sure. It somewhat strikes me as the wrong question -- people don’t choose college equally at all income & IQ levels, and some of the factors that (statistically) lead people into to choosing to go are already accumulating before they’re even born. As a result, the hypothetical solution that hides the factors that l…

Controlling for IQ here is difficult because the higher your IQ is, the more you would be attracted to learning for learning’s sake in the first place.

Exactly!

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#237

Post by sanj »

kryogen1c wrote: post #233
brownbat wrote: post #195

This is a really interesting addition to the literature if you dig through it, with subtle distinctions between income gains and wealth gains and interactions with demographics. It's not a simple "college ain't what it used to be" story. The biggest puzzle is how to explain why recent grads still command significantly higher incomes than nongrads without accumulating significantly more wealth. Increasing tuition is a…

>Most notably, the inability to discharge school debt in bankruptcy since 2005 may have had strong effects. >That last legal change remains bewildering to me. I have done no research on the matter, but my parents told me that doctors would go to school on loan for 7+ years, start a practice, and discharge all their loan debt through bankruptcy.

Student loans typically cannot be discharged through bankruptcy:

https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i/student-loans-in-bankru...

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#238

Post by rayiner »

macspoofing wrote: post #228
scarface74 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How “discerning” could you be when making loans to teenagers with no income and no credit history? The only thing that would happen is that the banks would force all loans to be co-signed. Guess who is statistically unlikely to get loans in that scenario?

>How “discerning” could you be when making loans to teenagers with no income and no credit history? Very. They may very well take into account your grades and SAT score to determine feasibility of repayment. >The only thing that would happen is that the banks would force all loans to be co-signed. They may and why shouldn't they? This will deter expensive colleges and push students to cheaper alternatives like trade…

All of the policies you propose would have a disproportionate impact on black and Hispanic students, who generally come from families with less means to qualify for credit. Policies that disproportionately channel these students to trade schools and community colleges is a political non-starter.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#239

Post by tjr225 »

scarface74 wrote: post #226
brownbat wrote: post #195

This is a really interesting addition to the literature if you dig through it, with subtle distinctions between income gains and wealth gains and interactions with demographics. It's not a simple "college ain't what it used to be" story. The biggest puzzle is how to explain why recent grads still command significantly higher incomes than nongrads without accumulating significantly more wealth. Increasing tuition is a…

You have three parties: schools, financial institutions, and teenagers. You have four - parents. Students can’t get a loan without filling out FAFSA which requires their parents involvement. Parents could guide children in the right direction.

The teenagers in this party have no way of making sure their parents are savvy enough to guide them in the right direction- unless of course they themselves are clever enough to know.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#240

Post by minblaster »

Bootwizard wrote: post #143
Spooky23 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivy League matters if you want to be in finance or white shoe consulting. Everything else, you just work hard at your first job and nobody gives a shit. I went to a big SUNY school and was a mediocre student. We all made out fine.

Agreed on the Ivy League part. I work with a guy that went to Princeton. I went to a public University in Florida. Sure he learned a lot more and had to do a thesis for his undergrad, but we have the same job now. He has no more leverage than me when it comes to that.

And when that guy’s roommate strikes it big, who gets the call to join the rocketship?

Steve Ballmer was Bill Gates’ roommate. You are getting free networking lottery tickets with high achievers at an Ivy.

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