Live data from Hacker News

Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

stlouisfed.org

91–100 of 360 posts

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#91
post #7

I can't find the citation now but the biggest argument against college I've seen is that once you control for family income, life success is way more correlated to SAT scores/the college's you apply for than the ones you actually attend. This would imply that college success stats merely indicate that they are selective in who they choose to enroll. EDIT: Its not the one I'm looking for, but I found a good one. http:…

[deleted]

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#92
"The rate of underemployment—working in a job that does not require a college degree—was 42.5 percent among recent graduates."

Wow. That, plus debt, is a huge hit.

The big item that analysis doesn't consider is the commonality of college education. "Between 2000 and 2018, the percentage of people 25 years and older who had completed a bachelor's degree or higher increased by 9 percentage points, from 25.6 percent to 35.0 percent." - Census Bureau[1]. That's for the entire population, so it lags changes for young people.

How did the St. Louis Fed miss that?

[1] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/02/number-of-peo...

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue averaging across all degrees is makes no sense. STEM degrees do pay off. Liberal arts degrees can pay if you want to boost a specific skill and have a solid plan for using it. E.g. getting an English degree to become a more persuasive speaker while promoting your otherwise sound and solidly executed startup. Aside from those 2 examples there are plenty of colleges with a business model of selling overpr…

Does STEM actually pay off, or does engineering/technology pay off? I've got a few friends who work in science, and it seems to be a pretty poorly paying field, with a real lack of job prospects, unless you secure a job at a government research department.

I have friends with stem phds who aren’t making tons of money. But, I think in general, stem degrees pay well.

I try to use reliable data sets [0] to help understand because anecdotes are hard for me to make decisions. The data are almost always a few years old so they aren’t perfect and could miss a new trend. But it’s the best I know how to use.

[0] figure 4 shows stem 3rd highest after health and management https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2011/c...

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#94
post #7

I can't find the citation now but the biggest argument against college I've seen is that once you control for family income, life success is way more correlated to SAT scores/the college's you apply for than the ones you actually attend. This would imply that college success stats merely indicate that they are selective in who they choose to enroll. EDIT: Its not the one I'm looking for, but I found a good one. http:…

I don't think your first dash is correct. It looks like they just integrate the curve in figure 4, multiplied by a 5% discount. This includes both tuition cost and missed work during college. Also, it's not really fair to represent this as a difference in lifetime income because of the discount rate: the college attendee makes significantly more than $100k more over their life, but the gains accrue later in life while the cost accrues earlier, so the discount rate makes the benefit smaller.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#95
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! I need actual work done. I understand it is $95 - to flush a toilet. But like, actual work, with tools, actually doing a job for 30 minutes. It is very expensive.

> My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. You brought up a 30 minute job. So I shared what it costs for me for a 30 minute (or more) job. And that it’s easy to get someone to come quickly for such a job. I’m saying that if the problem can be solved in an hour, it’s $95. This is called a “service call.” Basically coming out and fixing what can be fixed without buying parts. Any extra labor would cost more. T…

You are right. I can't get home depot to throw something off the truck for less than $200 broken. (And deny it showed up). So, where you are, where you live, I envy it. I imagine a world of nice plumbers and helper people. Canada????

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#96
I have a degree from a state school in chemistry, it's been worth it for me. In part because the GI Bill paid for it, but it also landed me several jobs writing software where domain knowledge is required and not so easy to come by without formal education.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#97
just want to add something that seems missing from much of the discussion of higher education; consider the question rephrased as, "is it worth learning to learn?" higher ed is not just job training. its exposure to ideas, opinions, people, and energy in an environment explicitly not tied to a profit motive. it should be cheaper, and more accessible, but..

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does STEM actually pay off, or does engineering/technology pay off? I've got a few friends who work in science, and it seems to be a pretty poorly paying field, with a real lack of job prospects, unless you secure a job at a government research department.

I have friends with stem phds who aren’t making tons of money. But, I think in general, stem degrees pay well. I try to use reliable data sets [0] to help understand because anecdotes are hard for me to make decisions. The data are almost always a few years old so they aren’t perfect and could miss a new trend. But it’s the best I know how to use. [0] figure 4 shows stem 3rd highest after health and management https:…

Fair enough. When it comes to career advice, I prefer anecdotes to large data sets, because there are far too many variables, and it's too easy to torture numbers.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue averaging across all degrees is makes no sense. STEM degrees do pay off. Liberal arts degrees can pay if you want to boost a specific skill and have a solid plan for using it. E.g. getting an English degree to become a more persuasive speaker while promoting your otherwise sound and solidly executed startup. Aside from those 2 examples there are plenty of colleges with a business model of selling overpr…

Does STEM actually pay off, or does engineering/technology pay off? I've got a few friends who work in science, and it seems to be a pretty poorly paying field, with a real lack of job prospects, unless you secure a job at a government research department.

Even in the engineering field, pay is massively different for different types of engineers. Civil and mechanical engineers generally aren't making anywhere near what software engineers make in top markets, for example. Similar story with chemists working in biotech vs. physicists doing fundamental research.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#100
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. You brought up a 30 minute job. So I shared what it costs for me for a 30 minute (or more) job. And that it’s easy to get someone to come quickly for such a job. I’m saying that if the problem can be solved in an hour, it’s $95. This is called a “service call.” Basically coming out and fixing what can be fixed without buying parts. Any extra labor would cost more. T…

You are right. I can't get home depot to throw something off the truck for less than $200 broken. (And deny it showed up). So, where you are, where you live, I envy it. I imagine a world of nice plumbers and helper people. Canada????

I’m in one of the top 10 metro areas. But I guess I’m just lucky. I do avoid the marketplace services (I think Home Depot’s used to be called RedBeacon) and go for independent operators as I think they have more experience and more money goes in their pocket.
Post reply on HN