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The Two Kinds of Moderate

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#281

Post by tptacek »

throwlaplace wrote: post #278
tptacek wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own the post anymore and can't unpublish it. But even if I could: it's annoying that I can't just post my shitty first drafts of things to some random website and not have them get periodically featured on a huge, busy community. That's what blogs are for. I have a backlog of blog posts, about a dozen entries long, none of which are published because I don't feel prepared to defend them here. I guess you can…

i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since you generally style yourself as voice of reason on hn. that being said you're not addressing my challenge, that this thing >That's what blogs are for. isn't actually the case. take for example your characterization of this kind of miscellany >shitty first drafts of things can you name another medium/form/forum where authors publish "shitty first drafts"? why is blogging d…

Sure: Twitter, and Hacker News comments. Two places I write a lot (one of which Paul Graham uses as well). What's annoying is that putting something in a better medium --- blog posts are better than both Twitter and HN comments for a number of reasons --- they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#282

Post by throwlaplace »

tptacek wrote: post #281
throwlaplace wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since you generally style yourself as voice of reason on hn. that being said you're not addressing my challenge, that this thing >That's what blogs are for. isn't actually the case. take for example your characterization of this kind of miscellany >shitty first drafts of things can you name another medium/form/forum where authors publish "shitty first drafts"? why is blogging d…

Sure: Twitter, and Hacker News comments. Two places I write a lot (one of which Paul Graham uses as well). What's annoying is that putting something in a better medium --- blog posts are better than both Twitter and HN comments for a number of reasons --- they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN.

>they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN

you could also publish anonymously. you have a choice. so does he.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#283

Post by inimino »

tptacek wrote: post #206

It just can't be the case that this kind of content, which would never ordinarily survive on the front page if written by someone else, has a place here simply because Paul Graham wrote it. I say this as a moderate, of the accidental variety, myself! But if this would get shot down if it appeared in The Atlantic or The New Republic --- and it would, and should --- it shouldn't get a pass just because Harj Taggar and…

Obviously Paul Graham's essays have been hugely influential here, and it's going to be front-page news on HN whenever he publishes a new one, even if it's not world-shaking in content. I really don't see why this should be surprising at all, or why this deserves a comment complaining about it. Some things are notable to a certain audience just because of who wrote them, and that's just the way it is.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#284

Post by tptacek »

throwlaplace wrote: post #282
tptacek wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure: Twitter, and Hacker News comments. Two places I write a lot (one of which Paul Graham uses as well). What's annoying is that putting something in a better medium --- blog posts are better than both Twitter and HN comments for a number of reasons --- they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN.

>they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN you could also publish anonymously. you have a choice. so does he.

Did you just take me to task for not directly responding to a point you made earlier and then, after I took the time to generate that response for you, pretend that hadn't happened at all? Are you conversing with me or just using me as an opportunity to riff for the thread? I doubt anyone's really reading this far down other than you and I.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#285

Post by sebastianconcpt »

tptacek wrote: post #206

It just can't be the case that this kind of content, which would never ordinarily survive on the front page if written by someone else, has a place here simply because Paul Graham wrote it. I say this as a moderate, of the accidental variety, myself! But if this would get shot down if it appeared in The Atlantic or The New Republic --- and it would, and should --- it shouldn't get a pass just because Harj Taggar and…

Why it should? How that wouldn't be censorship? and if so how you justify it?

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#286

Post by enraged_camel »

throwlaplace wrote: post #273
jasaloo wrote: post #263

What a delightfully garbage take! Also: “The defining quality of an ideologue, whether on the left or the right, is to acquire one's opinions in bulk. You don't get to pick and choose.” PG has clearly never encountered two leftists in the same room together. We argue on critical issues more than a thanksgiving dinner table.

i'll never understand people's preoccupation with other people's ideas on things it is known those people are not experts on. paul graham has a phd in computer science. he is a successful startup founder and vc. that is the extent of what i'm interested in his opinion on. if a famous political theorist started opining on the organization of software or product/market fit or angel investing how many people here would…

>>paul graham has a phd in computer science. he is a successful startup founder and vc. that is the extent of what i'm interested in his opinion on.

Smart people are much more likely to believe that they have intelligent and well-informed opinions on areas outside their expertise. PG himself is no exception.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#287

Post by r00fus »

It seems kind of a reductionist view of political association.

A multi-dimensional (at least 2 axis) model [1] would probably be more enlightening in terms of why high profile personalities view things that seem "accidentally moderate".

Example: Sanders disagreed with Beto's gun buyback citing both the constitutionality and the fact that the only way to round up the guns would be invasive police searches which could lead to a despotic act, despite the potential for reduced gun violence. This viewpoint is both shared by hard left and hard right.

[1] https://www.politicalcompass.org

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#288

Post by sebastianconcpt »

tptacek wrote: post #226
eric_b wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the content is not terribly profound. > I say this as a moderate, of the accidental variety, myself! I had to laugh. As you are a reasonably prolific contributor here, I've seen dozens if not hundreds of your comments. It's gotten to the point I can reliably tell when it's a tptacek comment before I even read the byline. And it's not because you have stances on both sides of the political aisle.

Paul Graham isn't 50% of the way between American Democrat and American Republican either; he's using "moderate" in an idiosyncratically modern American way. The fact that we'd have to hash this out on the thread is just another good illustration of why this post doesn't belong here.

Do you know where PG stands in the Nolan diagram?

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#289

Post by michaelmrose »

tptacek wrote: post #244
throwlaplace wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. if you don't want people to engage with your ideas then don't publish them; there's a very well known medium for this kind of expression/exercise called a private journal. the obviousness of this fact proves that published ideas are intended to be engaged with.

Clearly, posting something to your own site isn't by itself a request to start a debate about it on Hacker News.

When you have a foundational role in hacker news and post a lengthy exposition of your views on a continually contentious topic I would think a reasonable individual would expect engagement. Most importantly the individual themselves is more than capable of making that concept clear himself if he so chooses. We don't need to speak up for him.

Re: The Two Kinds of Moderate

#290

Post by throwlaplace »

tptacek wrote: post #284
throwlaplace wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they're elevated in this weird way to the front page of HN you could also publish anonymously. you have a choice. so does he.

Did you just take me to task for not directly responding to a point you made earlier and then, after I took the time to generate that response for you, pretend that hadn't happened at all? Are you conversing with me or just using me as an opportunity to riff for the thread? I doubt anyone's really reading this far down other than you and I.

no?

here's your partial response

>I don't own the post anymore and can't unpublish it. But even if I could: it's annoying that I can't just post my shitty first drafts of things to some random website and not have them get periodically featured on a huge, busy community. That's what blogs are for.

the first sentence does directly address it (choice) wrt to you and your blog (not pg's which he owns).

but the last sentence

>That's what blogs are for.

even according to you

>But even if I could

is the crux of what's at issue. and this you have not addressed anywhere that i can see

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