I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams • Hacker News Board

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#71

Post by hajile » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money.

If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll be in demand and getting a decent wage. Banks understand this fact and will do the math to give a loan anyway.

Some of my kids seem like they enjoy academics, but others do not. I'll be pushing the latter toward trade school. Average IBEW (electrical union) pay is about $20/hr for an apprentice and $33 for a journeyman. $40,000 to $66,000 with ZERO DEBT right out the gate is nothing to ignore (and that pay can easily double -- especially in your younger years -- if you're willing to travel and put in those extra hours). It sure beats minimum wage at a crappy service job.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#72

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

dna_polymerase wrote: post #6

The truth might be more nuanced though. Some colleges have better ROI than others. I assume there is a lack of good data on most colleges, because people who see the actual ROI on any given college wouldn't go to bad schools and schools had more pressure to lower their rates (or invest in their programs).

> Some colleges have better ROI than others.

As is always pointed out when someone mentions ROI: No one should look at ROI when it comes to colleges. You can end up with more wealth going to a lower ROI school. What matters is how much more you earn than your costs (difference, not ratio).

Spending $10K total for a very cheap undergrad and earning $30K/year means an ROI of 3. Spending $100K total for undergrad and earning $120K/year is a lower ROI, but you'll be a lot wealthier.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#73

Post by falcolas » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

pen2l wrote: post #66

falcolas wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world we live in is capable of providing a living wage to artists (and writers, and sculptors, etc.). It’s not common, and its not always the most comfortable living, but it exists. Pixar, Riot Games, Marvel, and XKCD would not exist without full time artists (even those with above-average-but-not-world-class talent).

XKCD is created by a guy who is ... not exactly an "artist". Well, he's an artist because he draws, but he is foremost an engineer, and he went to school for a STEM education. He had a tech job at NASA in his past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Munroe

You’re not wrong. I could have mentioned “Penny Arcade” or “Frogpants Studios” just as easily, I just figured that xkcd is better known here.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#74

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

Tremendously insightful comment.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#75

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

In my country people try to convince them but mostly they end up saying "well, if that's what they really want... they can always change degrees or do another one later". Several of my friends did that and ended up fine.

Of course, from the replies, I notice that in America the price of degrees makes the perspective very different because the decision may not be easily reversible...

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#76

Post by mmmBacon » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

Additionally student loans should be something you can refinance. When I took out loans in the early 90s, interest rates on subsidized Stafford loans were about 8%. As interest rates dropped during the course of my education, I was locked into that interest rate and the only way to get a lower rate on those high interest early loans was to consolidate loans. Loan consolidation doesn’t get you a market rate new interest rate instead you get the average of the 2 interest rates.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#77

Post by throwaway72873 » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #41

toolslive wrote: post #11

What I don't understand is: why don't they go to a university in Europe? I just checked for my alma mater: tuition fee is ~500 euro for 1 year. You pay about 4k in rent per year (this is probably too high an estimate). The level of education is high, and the programs are available in English.

They don't market nearly as effectively. They don't appear on rankings for top colleges. They don't send leaflets and no one you know goes there. The only European Uni I knew was oxford, and I had no idea that I could save money on a similar education in Europe. In the first place I just assumed I would need to know a foreign language for any non-UK European school.

Why they would market it? Education is subsided by government. Hope is that student will stay after finishing Uni. Mostly it targets students from poorer countries, for example Polish universities are attracting people from former soviet union.

Some ignorant american would just drink, cost money and move away at end.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#78

Post by HarryHirsch » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #67

refurb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors and lawyers could afford a house in Malibu and they are wage workers.

Not all doctors. Not all lawyers. Only the cream of the crop in those respective fields, and only after 20+ years in the field. Of course, that assumes a normal mortgage, with no “payments go to interest only” or other malarkey.

But to be able to play at the top of the field you'll have to have attended something like Penn Law or Yale Medicine. SUNY Downstate won't cut it.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#79

Post by mmmBacon » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

sesuximo wrote: post #13

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Take as many gap years being an artist as you want. The degree won't help much in pure arts anyway maybe the 529 will grow in that time anyway

The average rate of return in 529s is about 3%.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#80

Post by jpmattia » Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #31

vidanay wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drop the "follow your dreams" rhetoric and have a serious discussion with them about the costs of life and lifestyles. If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics.

Oh, come on. Visigothercize is the hottest thing right now: "burn! and loot! and turn! and burn!". Seriously, this is good advice. A lot of young-uns have amazingly naive ideas about both how much money they will make but also how much money they get to keep. Like they will hear about making $70K and imagine that somehow that means that they could pay off, say, a $350K debt "in the order of 5 years" (obviously not th…

> Visigothercize is the hottest thing right now: "burn! and loot! and turn! and burn!".

I live in Santa Monica (just a little south of Malibu) and given the number of exercise/barre/yoga/soul cycle/equinox/pilates/crossfit places near me, I have to say: Visigothercize sounds like pure genius and I have no doubt it would IPO within a year or two.