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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#31

Post by glangdale »

vidanay wrote: post #12
vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Drop the "follow your dreams" rhetoric and have a serious discussion with them about the costs of life and lifestyles. If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics.

Oh, come on. Visigothercize is the hottest thing right now: "burn! and loot! and turn! and burn!".

Seriously, this is good advice. A lot of young-uns have amazingly naive ideas about both how much money they will make but also how much money they get to keep. Like they will hear about making $70K and imagine that somehow that means that they could pay off, say, a $350K debt "in the order of 5 years" (obviously not thinking exactly 5). As opposed to the reality which is that they will be challenged to even service the interest on a $350K debt at that income level after their other expenses.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#32

Post by joshuaheard »

It's not a simple binary choice between going to college on a loan or not going because the parents can't afford it or don't want a loan. I worked my way through college over 5 years with only a small loan. One can spend the first two years at a community college for very low tuition then transfer to a university. Large state universities have lower tuition than small private universities. There are other means of financial aid besides loans, like grants and scholarships.

But, not everyone needs to go to a university. Society needs to encourage more vocational education for the trades, and encourage apprenticeships.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#33

Post by chiefalchemist »

I wish the headline was: "I Helped My Teenager Grow Up. You Should, Too."

Student debt sucks. But the myth that these institutions are somehow kidnapping high school students and forcing them to take on massive loans is a myth that needs to be crushed.

The market has been flood with cheap easy to get money. Families are lining up to bite off more than they should or could. This (i.e., demand) drives up cost. The cycle continues.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#34

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

I’m pretty sympathetic to the perspective that the solution is not dealing with it. “I want to go to art school” is at the same level as “I want a pony” or “I’m gonna marry a rich girl”; it’s not originally intended as a serious life plan, and you’ll only start to see it as one if the people around you encourage it.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#35

Post by jki275 »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Just say no.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#36

Post by ameister14 »

toolslive wrote: post #11

What I don't understand is: why don't they go to a university in Europe? I just checked for my alma mater: tuition fee is ~500 euro for 1 year. You pay about 4k in rent per year (this is probably too high an estimate). The level of education is high, and the programs are available in English.

Tuition for EU residents is usually not the same as tuition for American students. It's still cheaper than school in the US, but not by nearly as much

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#37

Post by refurb »

non-entity wrote: post #29
vidanay wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drop the "follow your dreams" rhetoric and have a serious discussion with them about the costs of life and lifestyles. If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics.

> If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics. I mean if that's what they want, you might as well tell them to be born into another family because you'll never enough for that as a wage worker regardless of the degree.

Doctors and lawyers could afford a house in Malibu and they are wage workers.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#38

Post by gen220 »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Kids of that age are usually wise enough to understand probability, the relative importance of money, and where their family’s relative position is in the financial sense.

With a solid grip on those parameters, I’d say that most well-adjusted teenagers are reasonably equipped to make that decision on their own. If you feel like they’re still making the “wrong” decision, I’d personally apply anecdotes and statistics to add emphasis to the parameters you feel they’re undervaluing.

Reflecting on my own situation, having recently come through the higher education system miraculously in-tact, the biggest issues I’ve observed are:

(1) most teenagers don’t know the financial situation of their parents (very few did when I was in High School, anyway). Their parents could be bona fide millionaires, but they make choices ignorant of that fact. Or, their parents could be penniless, and they don’t apply to schools that give needs-based full rides, because they think they can’t afford it.

(2) most teenagers do not have an appreciation for how quality of life varies substantially with seemingly small variations (say, 60k vs 90k living in NYC) in salary. This makes the “worst case” of having a minimum wage job seem not too bad.

(3) most teenagers don’t understand the “life impact” and psychological burden of having a mortgage-sized loan at 22: how much of a new grad paycheck is “left” after taxes, rent, loans; how the size of the loan correlates to the amount you take out of your paycheck; how much the loan costs over it’s lifetime; and how much this all impacts your decision to buy a house, start a business, marry, etc. This obviously impacts you terribly when your college adventure is unsuccessful, but it is a burden you’ll bear regardless of your success.

I feel similar to the author of this article, that it’s the responsibility of the parent to not sugar coat those issues with aphorisms like “just follow your dreams” or “the issue of money always solves itself”. It might feel embarrassing to tell your children your situation in life, but it’s a big life decision and it ought to be an informed one.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#39

Post by WilliamEdward »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #33

I wish the headline was: "I Helped My Teenager Grow Up. You Should, Too." Student debt sucks. But the myth that these institutions are somehow kidnapping high school students and forcing them to take on massive loans is a myth that needs to be crushed. The market has been flood with cheap easy to get money. Families are lining up to bite off more than they should or could. This (i.e., demand) drives up cost. The cycl…

This myth you've created is a strawman. No one is suggesting colleges physically hold students ransom. The argument is that society is increasingly forcing people to get degrees to keep up with the job climate and it is effectively the same as forcing people into debt.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#40

Post by abnry »

rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.
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