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Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#281

Post by DreamScatter »

ineedasername wrote: post #163
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP's main concern about privacy was that "third parties" might get the data. There is no recognition of the fact that a student might deserve or expect privacy from the school , only from some nebulous Other who is certain not to treat it with the great respect sure to be afforded it by the Benevolent and Definitely Not-For-Profit university. There is no question of whether this totalizing monitoring of a life is…

That fact that it's useful doesn't mean there isn't a human face to it. Look at the words I use. I don't say "optimizing outcomes" or some other dehumanizing turn of phrase. When I said it was "extremely useful", I said that in the context of " helping students be more successful " To interpret my words here as "quantities to optimization" is to impose your own views on these practices as a whole instead of to the sp…

I don't expect a university advisor to have surveillance data on me, I expect them to be busy with their own work, and that I can come to them for assistance when I need. It's up to the student to communicate the situation.. this should be a human interaction and not automated.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#282

Post by DreamScatter »

asdff wrote: post #271
DreamScatter wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are now obsolete if you are an inventor, scientist, entrpreneur, etc. One can be more successful and better allocate time outside a university at this point, than in the rigidly retarded academic environment (which holds people back from true discovery and learning).

Good luck being hired for a staff scientist job without any degree.

I have received staff scientist job offers

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#284

Post by Pete-Codes »

WalterBright wrote: post #43

> logging their absence into a campus database that tracks them over time and can sink their grade. Fortunately, I attended a college (Caltech) that as institute policy did not take attendance and no part of the grade was based on attendance. The result was nobody was disruptive in class, because if students didn't want to attend, they didn't attend. I remember sitting in class as a freshman thinking about this and e…

I remember a huge cry went up when our class was told our lecture would be a 9am. At which our head of dept told us "this isn't a holiday camp!" haha

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#286

Post by [deleted] »

atdrummond wrote: post #213
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What elite institutions take attendance?

While I was at UChicago, we had courses with a participation grade - so attendance was effectively taken whether or not a teacher recorded it every class. At LSE, they used iClickers while I was there for a few lecture hall courses. At least one (LSE100) requires attendance unless one wants to miss their chance of getting a First on the module.

[deleted]

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#287

Post by rubidium »

asdff wrote: post #273
rubidium wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally makes sense. Seminar style classes should have attendance factored in, but not by “did you attend” but by “did you contribute to the converstion?”. (And you shouldn’t use an app to track them. )

These classes end up feeling unproductive for me. By mandating attendance and contribution, you end up getting the entire class raising their hand to reiterate the same point and get their participation mark for the day. People who are actually engaged with the material enough to formulate a new point are stifled. By the end of class only maybe 10% of the discussion ends up being worthy, the rest a waste by this midd…

I’m sorry to hear that, but that’s on your teacher. They should do a better job of facilitating.

A good seminar is 16 people (max, 12 is better). No hand raising needed. The goal is learning and understanding. Ideally there’s not any grades. If there are they should be opaque and subjective up to the instructor :)

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#288

Post by anoncake »

mod50ack wrote: post #2

I'm a college student myself (my university, as far as I'm aware, has no system such as this). As far as I'm concerned, it's both an insidious creep of social-credit policy and a gross invasion of student privacy. It treats us as children rather than as the adults we are, and seems to me to be a sign of the re-infantalization of colleges. Many generations ago, when the age of majority was for the most part higher, co…

The real informal understanding IMHO was that rules should be there for a sensible reason. The reason for giving a 4pm deadline usually is that you want to grade the submissions sometime after 4pm. The reason for giving a midnight deadline is that it is a deadline and you've got to give deadlines.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#289

Post by sebasmurphy »

sebasmurphy wrote: post #4

Not sure if this is still the case or not but at Maryland circa. 2007-2010 it was school policy that no class could have attendance factored into the grade. If you wanted to skip every class and only show up for exams, that was your choice. Privacy implications aside, I feel that this should be the case everywhere since college is effectively a business transaction. What you decide to do with the product after you've…

After reading other peoples comments I would like to add that there were a few classes freshman/sophomore year that had discussion sections that were mandatory. Although these were usually only held once a week. The few that I had usually had quizzes during the first 15 minutes or weekly homework due at the beginning of the session. The sections were mostly a way for the students to get face-time with the Grad Student teaching assistants since office hours were impractical for these classes due to their size (70+) . Sometimes you had to stay for the duration of the session and other times you could bounce after turning in your homework.

None of these sessions were instructor mandated. They were part of the normal course curriculum, and were chosen during class registration. The standard setup was M-W Lecture, Fri Discussion.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#290

Post by rowanG077 »

seventhtiger wrote: post #246
WalterBright wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a job, you are being paid to perform a service. If you take the money and do not perform the service, you can expect negative consequences. As a college student, you are paying to receive a service. The college fulfilled their obligation that you paid for. Your only obligation is to pay the bill that you agreed to. You are not obliged to make use of the services provided. It's not the same situation at all.

So the adult argument has fell through. Now it's about being a customer. Service providers can fire customers. If you pay for membership of a club but never attend functions, the club will end your membership. If the service aims to provide a community or is invested in the success of its customers then it should fire customers who are not invested in their own success. Not to mention how many students are not custom…

The adult argument didn't fall through. If you pay a psychologist for an appointment and you don't show up the psychologist will happily arrange another appointment and gladly receive the money. You are comparing a job to university but they are not comparable in this way.
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