A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52 • Hacker News Board

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#171

Post by shkkmo » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

TravHatesMe wrote: post #49

shkkmo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure safe spaces are implemented in a variety of ways and with varying levels of competence. I would point out that "being opposed to sex-reassignment surgery" is not so much an opinion as it is an ideology. I suspect many safe spaces would be far more open to including people who subscribe to that ideology if those people entered those discussions with a willingness to learn, a desire to honestly explore the pr…

> a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery What if these pros and cons were subjective, and someone decided that in the end, the cons outweighed the pros? Would you cast them as an evil person and exile them from your safe space? Would you accept their opinion, respectfully disagree, and move on? It seems that you must either abide by the ideology, censor yourself, or be exiled and called a nazi…

> What if these pros and cons were subjective, and someone decided that in the end, the cons outweighed the pros?

Of course the pros and cons can be subjective, relative and individual. Among the trans and non-binary community, sexual reassignment surgery is not ubiquitous.

> Would you cast them as an evil person and exile them from your safe space? Would you accept their opinion, respectfully disagree, and move on?

You seem to be missing the distinction between sharing your opinions kindly and respectfully and self-censoring. My point is that people without much experience on this topic will likely have no clue about they ways they are being cruel, disrespectful or ignorant.

> Is everyone really required to learn all these new words / triggers / etc. in order to appease a tiny tiny fraction of the population? Genuinely curious to know your thoughts.

If you would like to act respectful towards (and be taken seriously by) any population, you must make an effort to learn their volcabulary and desired forms of respectful communication. This applies to any cultural group and isn't anything new or an audacious request.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#172

Post by thephyber » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #164

dehugger wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because of the G.I. Bill, wherein the government will pay for your education if you serve in the military. This makes service a viable alternative for paying to college, as opposed to loans or coming from a rich family. As a result many Americans join the military with their primary intention being to go to school after they complete their service. I believe 4 years is required for the G.I. Bill, but I could…

Ah I thought that bill ended in the 50s but it must still be going.

> The original G.I. Bill expired in 1956, but the term "G.I. Bill" is still used to refer to programs created to assist U.S. military veterans.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#173

Post by duelingjello » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

Don Shipley should check for this guy’s name in his database just to verify.

Meeting a SEAL is like getting struck by lightning because there are so many phonies out there stealing valor. I hope it’s not the case.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#174

Post by anongraddebt » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #29

If you want to see what a Navy SEAL's life is like, I highly recommend this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvvNKBGgUw "Documentary" makes it sound sterile or clinical, but in fact it's pretty badass. Kind of dispels the illusion that we're not pampered. It's so good I'll probably watch it again today. The diving section is the best, IMO. Imagine someone spinning you around underwater and ripping off pa…

A graduate of my high school (from a couple classes above mine) served as a member of Marine Force Recon. The opportunity to go through their training opened up after basic, but he sprained his ankle a couple days beforehand. They told him that was unfortunate, but that maybe he could try out in a year or so. Instead, he started training with a sprain.

A different breed.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#175

Post by gjkhkldajghl » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

kev009 wrote: post #170

If you have kids that want to do things in a pretty non-conformant way (with beautiful irony) I'd recommend taking a look at VMI and The Citadel, neither requires military service afterward (although it is an option and a good one to pay for the experience) yet you will be along side some of the best current and future military leaders as teachers, classmates, and friends for life. The Federal service academies are a…

Did you go to either of those schools?

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#176

Post by hellomyguys » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 7:26 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #145

hellomyguys wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. The quote literally says difficult subjects (read conversations) can be had within this space. Obviously we have different interpretations and my comment is adding my own perspective to it.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The definition of space space in the article is only limited to discussion, not identity or comfort. You claim that's not what they actually are, so you are agreeing with the OP then in pointing out how the article uses a different definition than the common usage in reality.

You’re conflating several distinct points into one. By expanding on how I see the term safe space being used doesn’t mean I disagree with the article and therefore agree with the OP. I don’t think that’s that hard to understand. I don’t really find it productive to continue this discussion.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#177

Post by dctoedt » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 11:19 AM UTC

shkkmo wrote: post #168

dctoedt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to astonish me how ready some people are to feel hurt and disrespected — and to brand anyone who disagrees with them as "shallow and pedantic." I have no desire to expend scarce brain cycles trying to keep up with who wants to be addressed in what manner.

Many people of different types have preferences about what they consider respectful forms of address and communication. I don't expect people to always get it right (I certainly don't), but it is entirely reasonable to see am unwillingness to even try to be polite as disrespectful.

It's not impolite to use standard terms of address, and it's disrespectful to expect others to learn and remember your personal, nonstandard preference for how you want to be addressed.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#178

Post by coldtea » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 11:21 AM UTC

asdfman123 wrote: post #167

coldtea wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Talk to people. Don't take a few seconds of something that they said and relentlessly mock them, like the guy is doing in that video you sent. People as individuals of course deserve for us to listen to them. Anybody. But it's OK to mock groups that go into aggregate stupid behavior - which also means mocking their members, but as members, not necessarily as whole human beings. > Again, there is such thing as aggre…

I think you should first try to understand people at the individual level and only then understand them in aggregate, and you seem to want to skip that first step. Because otherwise you're just going on your own biases and what other people have told you. It's like I didn't understand blues music very well until I realized that they put a lot of feeling into how they placed each specific note, more so than other genr…

>I think you should first try to understand people at the individual level and only then understand them in aggregate, and you seem to want to skip that first step.

You try to understand people at the individual level not "at first", but always -- when dealing with them individually.

For any other type of dealing (social, political, organizational, etc) you must try to understand people at various aggregate levels.

Here's a company analogy. If you do customer support, treat customers as individual people. But if you plan your next releases features, you need to think about demographics and what different user categories want. And if you plan to open a store, you need to think of the aggregate patterns in the area (average spending, shopping behaviors, etc).

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#179

Post by op00to » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 11:34 AM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #25

lordleft wrote: post #15

Studying with veterans is an incredible experience. I'm lucky that my school (Columbia) has a very large undergraduate vet population. It adds a dimension of experiential diversity that many colleges fail to capture, and makes real what are normally distant and easy to abstract away geopolitical decisions, like deploying troops in Afghanistan. I hope more universities follow Yale and Columbia in creating spaces for r…

Also hiring. I worked with an ex Army Ranger who was by far the best leader I've seen.

I have an ex ranger on my team who is the most sexist, pompous, self important asshole I’ve ever met. By far the best bloviator and derailer of projects I’ve seen.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#180

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #178

asdfman123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should first try to understand people at the individual level and only then understand them in aggregate, and you seem to want to skip that first step. Because otherwise you're just going on your own biases and what other people have told you. It's like I didn't understand blues music very well until I realized that they put a lot of feeling into how they placed each specific note, more so than other genr…

> I think you should first try to understand people at the individual level and only then understand them in aggregate, and you seem to want to skip that first step. You try to understand people at the individual level not "at first", but always -- when dealing with them individually. For any other type of dealing (social, political, organizational, etc) you must try to understand people at various aggregate levels.…

You can look at hard data and form models about groups (e.g. perhaps to best market to them), but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

And of course, it is often important to group and categorize people to think about them. I'm not disagreeing with that. I don't think anyone reasonably intelligent could disagree with that.

Let me put it this way: I'm a classic overanalyzer and I've found while I'm very good at analyzing and theorizing, if I do not have a rock-solid foundation for my premises my theories can be shockingly wrong. If someone snubs me in public I can create quite elaborate theories about why they are the way they are, but if I simply check with them to see if my premises are true I find that maybe they just didn't see me.

of course, that's kind of a silly example, but the same goes for any kind of analysis.

That's why you talk to people -- to test out your premises to see if they're really true. Because otherwise, when you analyze people, what are you really basing it on? A completely neutral, objective assessment based on data with an understanding that it paints multiple pictures? Or is it a passing value judgement when the data can be interpreted many different ways?

To understand a subculture, you have to first understand that subculture. You don't only have to talk to people -- you can also read and think about their beliefs in good faith.

But if you don't do either, you are essentially arguing with the title of the news article without reading the explanation!