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A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

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Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. I mean a different smart. General intelligence. It implies you learn the traits required to solve a hard problem. It's a habit of self-optimization.

I don't actually know if general intelligence is a thing the way you're describing it. There's no reason why an insanely smart algo PhD-from-MIT person could take their algo smarts and intuitively apply it to being a compassionate human being dealing with others whose existence and experiences may be drastically different from themselves for practically no feasible reason (fate/gods/random chance).

A lot of traits commonly seen as benevolent can be attributed to evolutionary pressure. Healthy human emotions associated with these are not necessary for them to work, although they are important for living a fulfilling life.

Cooperation and diversity are both optimal so being complex social creatures we go to lenghts to communicate as widely as we may. I think it all works out quite nicely, thankfully.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What group is that? Where can I find such a group that only has toxic members interested in social justice? Well, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yvzBFESqZs > It's like when people talk about "the south" as if it were one thing. I'm from the south, and if you get two random people who live in the southern US (or any part of the world) they will both be individuals with a complex system of beliefs It'…

Talk to people. Don't take a few seconds of something that they said and relentlessly mock them, like the guy is doing in that video you sent. That's why our country is so divided these days. Again, there is such thing as aggregate behavior, but break it apart. How much of it is toxic, and how much of it do you just find weird/not quite your taste? Going back to the video, you might think all that focus on triggers a…

>Talk to people. Don't take a few seconds of something that they said and relentlessly mock them, like the guy is doing in that video you sent.

People as individuals of course deserve for us to listen to them. Anybody. But it's OK to mock groups that go into aggregate stupid behavior - which also means mocking their members, but as members, not necessarily as whole human beings.

>Again, there is such thing as aggregate behavior, but break it apart. How much of it is toxic, and how much of it do you just find weird/not quite your taste?

Depends. If you're trying to judge an individual judge them on a case by case basis, despite whatever group(s) they might belong to. After all, their group affiliation doesn't define somebody totally. There can be jerk Democrats and wonderful Republicans for example, and vice versa. In fact, there can be great people that are otherwise (and for their own life-history reasons) bigots, and hideous hypocritical people who are otherwise humanitarians. People are complex.

That said, it's also helpful to judge movements in aggregate, when trying to trace historical contours, affect change, etc.

MLK could simply throw his hands up and say "everybody is different, I can't assume there is racism in the country" and try to access everybody individually -- and that would have gotten nowhere. Or, as he did, he could say there are very strong racist currents in the country, especially in the South, and I need to march there, and do so and so to change those people, as he did.

One has to think at several levels of abstraction, not just individual people.

>It's easy to treat someone like the "other" and project a lot of unfavorable traits onto them, because it's human nature. But it's important to try not to other-ize people.

If anything, I have another problem, I'm heavily contrarian. I see some things as basically correct, but if you push towards -X in a discussion (or if many people do) I will push towards X (even if in another disucssion I will push towards -X if somebody pushes to X) to restore balance. I also tend to pick things I agree with with both sides of a debate, even things they'll never themselves agree with ever. I basically hate group conformity. E.g. I can see the truth in some alt-right points, and I can see hardline leftist points. Not merely from a centrist way though (a compromise between them) but even hardcore tenets of one or the other side.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#163
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about as charitable an interpretation as the one suggesting marriage equality would be a harbinger of bestiality. You can always connect some set of dots from a policy you don't like to some lurid, horrible outcome; there's a well-known rhetorical fallacy that captures this directly.

Your comment is a good example of the critique at the top of this thread. You start with the worst possible interpretation of my comment, use a metaphor about bestiality and immediately dismiss my comment as a fallacy.

Your argument begins with the least charitable interpretation of people who support said surgery so I'm not sure how you can claim the high ground here.

> Dissidents may believe that governmental power is being misused to further a harmful ideology and to push unproven and ill-advised treatments on children.

This is the exact same argument that was used in the past against gay marriage. There is no scientific basis behind this argument, just an appeal to fear and irrationality.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going into the military before you go to college seems to be a very common thing in the US. In the UK you'd either do college (university) first, or you wouldn't be planning on doing it at all. Some people do in-service degrees but I don't think it's common for large number of people to do a normal undergraduate degree after a military career.

This is because of the G.I. Bill, wherein the government will pay for your education if you serve in the military. This makes service a viable alternative for paying to college, as opposed to loans or coming from a rich family. As a result many Americans join the military with their primary intention being to go to school after they complete their service. I believe 4 years is required for the G.I. Bill, but I could…

Ah I thought that bill ended in the 50s but it must still be going.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#165
post #56
post #30

The thing that hit me after coming back from the war, was how absolutely meaningless the vast majority of life’s required set of petty exercises are. I understand the elitism and the challenge of conquering Yale. There seems, however, to be a monumental difference between him and the rest; that is, 26 years of hardship, quiet observation, and directed action in shaping the world before reaching toward a philosophical…

The trouble with the term 'elitism' is that sometimes the best is only adequate, and for many people the best that society has to give is legitimately not enough. One lifetime of learning is not enough. Another one is in order. "We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion, and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art." - Henry James

Thanks for sharing that powerful quote.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#166

If you want to see what a Navy SEAL's life is like, I highly recommend this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvvNKBGgUw "Documentary" makes it sound sterile or clinical, but in fact it's pretty badass. Kind of dispels the illusion that we're not pampered. It's so good I'll probably watch it again today. The diving section is the best, IMO. Imagine someone spinning you around underwater and ripping off pa…

This kind of training seems like it would cause a lot of injuries. Is that just an accepted part of it?

In Australia at least, the special forces training (so I've been told by those who know some who went through it) can definitely cause injury and you are free to leave at any time due to it. But you can never return.

The emotional impact of going through the training will not be the same the second time around, so they won't take you back for another try.

A story I heard was that the trainers were total arseholes saying he was weak, saying he couldn't finish, and so on - then as soon as he realised he had to stop (broken leg or something) their attitudes completely changed to supportive and caring. Going through that and seeing the other side would definitely ruin the experience if they let you back in.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to people. Don't take a few seconds of something that they said and relentlessly mock them, like the guy is doing in that video you sent. That's why our country is so divided these days. Again, there is such thing as aggregate behavior, but break it apart. How much of it is toxic, and how much of it do you just find weird/not quite your taste? Going back to the video, you might think all that focus on triggers a…

> Talk to people. Don't take a few seconds of something that they said and relentlessly mock them, like the guy is doing in that video you sent. People as individuals of course deserve for us to listen to them. Anybody. But it's OK to mock groups that go into aggregate stupid behavior - which also means mocking their members, but as members, not necessarily as whole human beings. > Again, there is such thing as aggre…

I think you should first try to understand people at the individual level and only then understand them in aggregate, and you seem to want to skip that first step. Because otherwise you're just going on your own biases and what other people have told you.

It's like I didn't understand blues music very well until I realized that they put a lot of feeling into how they placed each specific note, more so than other genres I've heard. But if you don't know to listen to that, you don't understand what they're trying to say.

Groups of people talk in different ways like that, too. It's easy to listen to them and assume they're saying nothing of value, but perhaps they're communicating something you haven't learned to listen to yet.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'ma be real with you chief. That's hella shallow and pedantic. I think it would be hurtful and disrespectful to die on such a mole hill instead of just accommodating people over something so simple.

It never ceases to astonish me how ready some people are to feel hurt and disrespected — and to brand anyone who disagrees with them as "shallow and pedantic." I have no desire to expend scarce brain cycles trying to keep up with who wants to be addressed in what manner.

Many people of different types have preferences about what they consider respectful forms of address and communication. I don't expect people to always get it right (I certainly don't), but it is entirely reasonable to see am unwillingness to even try to be polite as disrespectful.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#169
post #30

The thing that hit me after coming back from the war, was how absolutely meaningless the vast majority of life’s required set of petty exercises are. I understand the elitism and the challenge of conquering Yale. There seems, however, to be a monumental difference between him and the rest; that is, 26 years of hardship, quiet observation, and directed action in shaping the world before reaching toward a philosophical…

Thank you for your service. If you'd like to share more, I'd love to hear it.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#170
If you have kids that want to do things in a pretty non-conformant way (with beautiful irony) I'd recommend taking a look at VMI and The Citadel, neither requires military service afterward (although it is an option and a good one to pay for the experience) yet you will be along side some of the best current and future military leaders as teachers, classmates, and friends for life. The Federal service academies are also well regarded but there's something a little bit more rough and tumble at these two that is precious and I say that with respect even as they two are rivals.

To have you ass kicked every day, in every way imaginable (mentally, physically, athletically, motivational, trivially, lack of sleep and food, academically) while still doing a full course load is really a great start on adult life which can be just as hard and you are always prepared. I doubt the academics are anything like an ivy, just sharing another option that reminded me of the bridging of two worlds of physicality and academic pursuit.

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