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Downsides to working at a tech giant

blog.garrytan.com

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Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#301

Post by hef19898 »

sdrinf wrote: post #185
novok wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why is the math changed. The gap between startup and tech giant is much larger now than it was in 2010. Also, unless you have insider access and join a very risky angel stage company, the likelihood of getting a good package that makes sense is low, very low. Also public companies have shown to get +3x gains, which can make the math even worse. Example from personal experience that is very lucky in startup…

I agree with all of the points raised, and share the same experiences. But this one: > I might as well become a founder and start my own at that point Great! So, how would you recruit your first 10 employees?

Handpick them out of your network and give them not just equity but real control as well. That for the first 5 or so. The others should come from your network and be handpicked by your handpicked first 5 employees. And equity, but obviously less than the first 5.

In my case my first employee, as soon as enough comes in to pay someone, is already recruited. Equity will be around 20%, with another 25 or so for the next couple of employees. That's without outside funding, doesn't seem to be necessary so. If it will be necessary that obviously changes.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#302

Post by the_cat_kittles »

keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

its amazing how every piece of this comment is either referencing money, social connections or status. it reads like you've forgotten that whats significant about a job is the work itself, and what it does. well, for me anyways.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#303

Post by ericd »

novok wrote: post #207
sdrinf wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of the points raised, and share the same experiences. But this one: > I might as well become a founder and start my own at that point Great! So, how would you recruit your first 10 employees?

That is a big reason why I don't start my own company, because I couldn't really live with doing that. My current armchair strategies: * Compete in a way that big tech are not willing to do, which means distributed remote companies. A lot of people don't want to live in $3.5k/month rent SF or other tech centers for various reasons. * What a lot of startups do, but RDF (reality distortion field) over with 'we only hir…

We'll be taking some of this approach at our new co, bootstrapped, with very generous share grants for the first employees. We're doing partially remote, but I think full remote might make it too hard to get the core team as tight knit as it needs to be. I don't think it's a good substitute for a few people sitting in a room yet, but I could certainly be wrong about that.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#305

Post by camelspade »

opportune wrote: post #269
jarjoura wrote: post #221

For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…

Absolutely this. A lot of startups these days skimp by hiring sub-FAANG SWEs with less than 5 yoe, and it shows in their products. Lack of product maturity, bad engineering (worst horror story I’ve heard recently is Wayfair), resume driven development / over-engineering / cargo culting, huge teams to work on simple features. All so they can hire two middle-skill 22 year olds instead of a skilled 35 year old. If you’r…

Who/what is a “sub-FAANG SWE”? Are you suggesting software engineers who don’t work at one of the FAANG’s are subpar? Apologies if I’m misunderstanding.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#306

Post by bilekas »

keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

I absolutely love love love this..

I'm not sure how many more people I will send this on to, you haven't said something for the first time, but you laid it out in a way as if i was speaking to someone.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I've been somewhat there and I get that not everyone understands, but you really speak what I believe a lot of normal developers/designers/engineers are thinking.. Much love.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#307

Post by keithwhor »

pm90 wrote: post #256
keithwhor wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I haven’t responded to the math changing is because it’s Christmastime and I’m spending time with family. Some of the responses to my post require a much more thoughtful answer than I can muster while at the gym between meeting family members. Be patient. I’ll respond to the other post if you wait.

This is a terrible comment. "Be patient" is a non-response. You made a comment, and got a very good response as to why your comment is missing nuances that might be the real reason for a change that you're attributing to something else. Especially in a forum like this one with no notifications, Be Patient is basically saying STFU.

The poster I replied to here created a straw man argument based on my lack of response to another comment. I didn’t think that was fair considering my bandwidth limitations, so I decided it would be best to set expectations. My response to the “math changing” comment has now been added above.

Do not assume that the lack of response of somebody else implies anything aside from the fact that they didn’t respond. They could agree, disagree, or maybe they haven’t even read or thought about it yet — and maybe they never will because something else distracts them.

I think discussions tend to be the most productive if we assume everybody has the best intentions. :)

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#308

Post by shadowgovt »

keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

As tech becomes infused into everybody's daily experience, a certain amount of conservatism is not only to be expected, but probably wise. The "move fast and break things" startup approach isn't necessarily optimal in all facets of life, and a lot of the low-hanging fruit of "possible significant improvement if we succeed, low societal consequences if we screw up" is plucked.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#309

Post by garry »

hindsightbias wrote: post #248
keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

Stories like this are really a dime a dozen. Marc Andreesen and the founders of Tivoli both worked in the same IBM dept. I met Michael Dell when he was building systems in his dorm. So did a thousand other people. Anyone who got in early at Dell got ground into the pulp years before there was a huge payoff. Even those who survived had to wait 10 years. The trick is finding new tech where people are taking risks. Anyb…

This is a great reminder. I was impressed by the recent documentary "General Magic" by how much smart people seem to congregate around new ideas. The old Mac team was the same one trying to create the smartphone 10 years before it was possible, and it was that core of folks who ended up doing it at Apple and Android later anyway.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#310

Post by KaiserPro »

The problem is that people seem to think that one must drink the coolaid to do well.

I have worked for both small, large, internationals and startups.

A startup is a massive risk. 99.5% of them fail, of that 0.5%, >50% are acquired which is a spectacularly brutal experience. Odds are, your startup will fail, and take you with it. (especially as those of you in the US have to think about health insurance.)

Most of the time you'll be making fudge after fudge, using stuff cause its shiny and regretting every choice you made 6 months previous. then you have to deal with the batshit social rules are de rigueur.

Either way, you can either choose to believe that your company is looking after your interests, or treating you like cattle (Kobe beef, if you're lucky enough)

Far too many startups require their staff to blindly worship the co-founders, even though they are obviously deficient, only useful for tax write-down fodder. Look the other direction as your boss has a spectacular mental breakdown, or decides to initiate conjugal relations via blackmail and obnoxious power plays.

Basically, you can't just slap the word startup on a thing and allow it to fuck with peoples lives.

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