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A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

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Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment makes a bunch of strong claims and backs them up with research results that appear to say the opposite thing. For instance: the American Academy of Pediatrics report you've cited is supportive of puberty blockers, and cites as sources other reports noting that they've been used safely for decades. If these are your best sources, the conclusion I draw is that your argument is weak.

You originally claimed that "All a puberty blocker does is delay the onset of puberty" and that they "have no permanent effects that require reversal". From the pediatrics journal I cited: > Pubertal suppression is not without risks. Delaying puberty beyond one’s peers can also be stressful and can lead to lower self-esteem and increased risk taking. Some experts believe that genital underdevelopment may limit some p…

Did you take the time to read any of the citations for this report, which, again, is supportive of puberty blockers and (strongly) supportive of early medical intervention for TGD patients? Or are you hanging your entire argument on "research on long-term risks is currently limited"? The report's citations are clearer, as are the other resources you'll find on puberty-blocking drugs. The medical research consensus appears to overwhelmingly support delayed puberty as a treatment strategy for TGD patients.

(The "irreversability" of effects from puberty blockers is itself contentious; TGD patients given puberty blockers apparently tend not to desist, and puberty delay is followed up with cross-sex hormone treatment that can theoretically reverse bone mineralization issues; the age at which the drugs are administered is also a major variable in these studies).

I've read something like 9-10 studies on this issue this afternoon and haven't found one that couldn't reasonably be described as "strong support" for GnRHa-type treatment. Can you find a credible study that isn't? All I found were things by people like Michael Laidlaw, a private practice doctor and tort expert witness who is cited more frequently in places like The Daily Wire and The Federalist than in medical journals. You can probably do better! And you need to do better than a single sentence from a long report that appears to straightforwardly and directly disagree with the thrust of your argument.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#152
post #36

This man's experience & his positive report of campus culture at an Ivy League school are heartening among all the distressing stories of ideological conformity on elite college campuses. It certainly is not all students at elite schools who are trying to shut down discussion, and claims that all students are doing that are surely exaggerated. Two things should be noted, however. First, that this is one person's acco…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, everything you say is pretty much on the money.

Nassim Taleb explores this exact concept in his essay titled "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority" https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "science"? Scientists disagree with each other all the time. Pick a controversial scientific issue; anthropogenic global climate change is a good example. Climate skeptics have no trouble coming up with scientific authorities to back their claims. Do we just take a poll and accept the results? That's probably what I'd do, but it's hardly satisfying as a way of determining what "objective truth" is. The problem…

There is such a thing as consensus and mathematical proofs. The entire climate change debate is about the narrative of "why", not the science of "how". The change is real and happening, with the questions being: are humans having an effect and how much of an effect , with a follow up of *if we're having an effect then can we change it/reverse it". Science does move it forward because it's the foundation. The issue yo…

No, I'm not. I'm pointing out that science is evolving and contentious and that as convenient as it is for people to declare victory and claim that science has settled and, in turn, settled the arguments they've found themselves in, science tends not to make any such claims. If you think that's not the case, and that, for instance, science has conclusively shown something that TGD safe-space people don't want to hear, I think it's likely that it's you that misunderstands what science is and how it works, not me.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#154

If you want to see what a Navy SEAL's life is like, I highly recommend this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvvNKBGgUw "Documentary" makes it sound sterile or clinical, but in fact it's pretty badass. Kind of dispels the illusion that we're not pampered. It's so good I'll probably watch it again today. The diving section is the best, IMO. Imagine someone spinning you around underwater and ripping off pa…

A good friend of mine from high school is a Navy SEAL. He was shot in the leg in combat (similar to the guy from this story, though not quite as bad; but still multiple surgeries and over a year of recovery). He said he'd rather get shot again than go through BUD/S again.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#155
post #5

The Yale Directed Studies program is no joke -- it tends to attract the most motivated humanities students and to have incredible amounts of work and reading. Impressive that he's taking it, but he's also seeing a somewhat more serious class of students who, by extension, are less likely to be snowflakes.

Fellow DS alum? I still rate DS as among the hardest things I've done (although partly because I was too inexperienced to know how to pace/schedule my work correctly). Everything that followed felt so easy afterwards. Sophomore to senior years all felt like a breeze compared to DS. It also had a fairly profound effect on my intellectual development. Even though I graduated with a degree in CS, most of my non-work rea…

I did the Princeton version, and studied math before CS, but same idea. I spent the two years after graduation filling in gaps in my philosophy and history background. It provides a very useful intellectual framework insofar as it shows the history and interconnectedness of ideas from disparate cultures and time periods.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such a thing as consensus and mathematical proofs. The entire climate change debate is about the narrative of "why", not the science of "how". The change is real and happening, with the questions being: are humans having an effect and how much of an effect , with a follow up of *if we're having an effect then can we change it/reverse it". Science does move it forward because it's the foundation. The issue yo…

No, I'm not. I'm pointing out that science is evolving and contentious and that as convenient as it is for people to declare victory and claim that science has settled and, in turn, settled the arguments they've found themselves in, science tends not to make any such claims. If you think that's not the case, and that, for instance, science has conclusively shown something that TGD safe-space people don't want to hear…

I've explained this several times that facts and the narrative based on them are entirely different. The former is settled, otherwise it wouldn't be a fact. The latter is not, and is what the discussion is for.

> "science has conclusively shown something that TGD safe-space people don't want to hear"

This plays out in every single HN thread when controversial subjects come up. We just had one a few days ago about male and female brains.

> "I think it's likely that it's you that misunderstands what science is and how it works, not me."

That's interesting because I've said that understanding science is a prerequisite to understanding the consensus of objective truths while explaining how those truths are derived from the scientific method and proofs, yet you argue that it's irrelevant in your prior comments since it can all be questioned endlessly.

So which is it? Either you understand it and there are objective truths or you question it all. Claiming that someone else doesn't understand it is doing exactly what you say can't be done as an argument.

Or, perhaps, I do know what science is and how it works, and having a consistent argument shows the power of using science in discussions where both parties agree on the same principles of reality? Anyways, this seems to have run its course so I'll end it there.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#157
Tangentially related anecdote:

As an undergrad, I got to spend a semester in the ROTC capstone for second semester seniors called “Leadership and Ethics.” I remember walking in on my first day in cargo shorts and flip flops as the only civilian and non-senior student. Everyone else was in full uniform. The class was taught by a Marine Officer.

As a business student, I realized how similar the military and business can be. Most of the theory of leadership and management aims to address a fundamental goal: how do you get people to do something they may not necessarily want to do. Whether that’s making widgets or killing someone, the underlying theories are quite similar.

The main difference I noticed between the two fields was the military’s emphasis on trust. You were to respect a chain of command because you could trust your commanding officer. You were expected to perform your best because you could trust your teammates to do the same. The reason soldiers could rely on this trust was because their superiors had gone through the bullshit and could manage from a seat of positional and experiential authority.

In the business world, they taught management as if having positional authority would automatically create trust and inspire subordinates. MBA students graduate and come into supervisory roles without any prior experience in the underlying work and get mixed results. Part of me wonders whether this is due to ineptitude or simply inexperience.

I remember finishing that course and thinking I really should study engineering because I knew that wanted to play a role in managing and leading technical teams working on innovative problems.

Fast forward a few years and I left my role in public accounting to go into industry, but instead of going into finance or internal accounting I chose to learn development and spend a few years experiencing what it’s like to be a developer, so that one day when I’m managing a technical team I can actually know when they’re giving me a legitimate justification for something, and when they’re just bullshitting me.

Having been a developer for a couple years now, I don’t know how I could have managed a technical team without this experience. I think back to my “career plan” before I took that class and remember thinking that I’d not only be able to find a managerial position upon graduation, but that I’d be able to lead effectively as a 22 year old. What a foolish 20 year old I was!

Anyway, this is really just a roundabout way of saying I loved my class and have tremendous respect for military leadership. I would have loved to have more classes with officers and veterans, and hope my kids get that opportunity someday.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You originally claimed that "All a puberty blocker does is delay the onset of puberty" and that they "have no permanent effects that require reversal". From the pediatrics journal I cited: > Pubertal suppression is not without risks. Delaying puberty beyond one’s peers can also be stressful and can lead to lower self-esteem and increased risk taking. Some experts believe that genital underdevelopment may limit some p…

Did you take the time to read any of the citations for this report, which, again, is supportive of puberty blockers and (strongly) supportive of early medical intervention for TGD patients? Or are you hanging your entire argument on "research on long-term risks is currently limited"? The report's citations are clearer, as are the other resources you'll find on puberty-blocking drugs. The medical research consensus ap…

You initially claimed that there are no effects of puberty blockers besides delaying puberty. This is not the case. You seem to be conflating support for the usage of puberty blockers with the idea that puberty blockers are safe and free of adverse side effects. These are two very different things. Those studies that endorse puberty blockers do so despite the health risks - they do not deny the existence of health risks.

And lastly, while you purport to have read many studies and have asked that I provide references you have not provided a single source to support the claims you're making. Link me to a study that categorically denies the existence of adverse consequences of puberty blockers. This is what you claimed above. Finding studies that support the use of puberty blockers is not support for your claim that "All a puberty blocker does is delay the onset of puberty" and that they "have no permanent effects".

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the social value that we used to get from churches, fraternal organizations, bowling leagues, block parties....

All of which exist, and will happily take you in if you want. So this is a social value in addition to that, not a replacement for its loss.

The degree to which they exist and successfully serve that function has been diminishing, at least in the United States, for decades.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#160
post #3

From the author's photo his purple heart was not from a minor wound. He appears to be an amputee. I imagine that the dog in class was related to this. It is heartening that these students were able to respect this man for his service, or despite it. I would hope that the same would happen if his sacrifice was less evident. I'd think it well could have. People are so much better when they meet face to face without any…

The larger incident is the subject of the season 2 of the Serial Podcast.
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