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A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

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Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#31

Post by toiletfuneral »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

If you every get to know someone who is, you'll find trans people actually do suffer significant violence and disrespect. I know you put those in scare quotes to imply it's not real and I think that's really dishonest.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#32

Post by [deleted] »

gbronner wrote: post #5

The Yale Directed Studies program is no joke -- it tends to attract the most motivated humanities students and to have incredible amounts of work and reading. Impressive that he's taking it, but he's also seeing a somewhat more serious class of students who, by extension, are less likely to be snowflakes.

[deleted]

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#33

Post by jedbrown »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

"If wearing a tan suit wasn't deeply unbecoming of a President, there would have been little backlash from conservatives."

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#34

Post by shkkmo »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

I am sure safe spaces are implemented in a variety of ways and with varying levels of competence.

I would point out that "being opposed to sex-reassignment surgery" is not so much an opinion as it is an ideology. I suspect many safe spaces would be far more open to including people who subscribe to that ideology if those people entered those discussions with a willingness to learn, a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery, and a desire to share their own experiences of gender while also learning about other experiences of gender.

That is not any easy thing to do and it is especially difficult to do for cisgender people who have little knowledge of the emotional land mines they can trigger by simply relying on the "common sense" they have learned over a lifetime. If there is an honest desire to be included in these discussions, I would highly recommend taking the time to listen and learn before you start sharing your viewpoint so you can understand the effects that your words will have.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#35

Post by asdfman123 »

didgeoridoo wrote: post #28
asdfman123 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Try engaging with people -- and I mean engaging with them, not talking at them or even arguing with them -- and don't make so many assumptions.

I think we’re talking past each other? I’m not making a value judgment per se. It is simply a fact that many in the toxic social justice group you reference do not believe that the work of dead white males is particularly interesting or important. Thus, they tend to self-select out of classes with an emphasis on the western canon. This isn’t an assumption — it’s an observation about many of my friends who took DS (I…

> toxic social justice group

What group is that? Where can I find such a group that only has toxic members interested in social justice?

> do not believe that the work of dead white males

Does everyone in that group believe that specific thing as well?

> self-select out of classes with an emphasis on the western canon

What percentage of those people outright reject the Western cannon as not worth learning? Do some of them think it's worthwhile to learn, but also want to get other perspectives as well so don't take quite so many of those classes?

I'm not trying to nitpick or go line-by-line, but just asking you to question your judgments about people. I find people are overwhelmingly more nuanced and reasonable than is often assumed.

It's like when people talk about "the south" as if it were one thing. I'm from the south, and if you get two random people who live in the southern US (or any part of the world) they will both be individuals with a complex system of beliefs. I mean, even when you start generalizing about people, different neighborhoods in Houston contain very different people of different viewpoints and circumstances. And then there are rural areas, different socioeconomic spectrums, etc. etc. etc.

Don't lump people together. And I'm not trying to hand wave all analysis of people as "too complex to understand," but just to realize that people might be quite a bit different than you think if you give them the benefit of the doubt.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#36

Post by sequoia »

This man's experience & his positive report of campus culture at an Ivy League school are heartening among all the distressing stories of ideological conformity on elite college campuses. It certainly is not all students at elite schools who are trying to shut down discussion, and claims that all students are doing that are surely exaggerated.

Two things should be noted, however. First, that this is one person's account, not an examination of broader trends. For a broader, data-supported survey of anti-free-speech trends on campus and why it harms students, "The Coddling of the American Mind" is a fantastic and enlightening book. (Incidentally it cites causes from right & left wing extremists, on and off campus, it's not a story of "snowflakes bad".)

Second, it's not necessary for authoritarian/illiberal activists to be in the majority in order to have a profound impact on the culture. "A small group of dedicated individuals" can affect great change even if they're in the extreme minority. If 1% of people on campus are willing to publicly condemn you and do everything they can to destroy your reputation or get you fired, and 4% are willing to go along with it, that can be enough to convince the the other 95% to keep their mouths shut.

None of this is to take away from the fact that this is a refreshing narrative of unity, openness & cultural exchange in the Ivies.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#37

Post by starpilot »

asdfman123 wrote: post #2

More people need to learn that if you leave your bubbles and talk to people, you'll find that they are actually indeed people too, and not caricatures you read about on outrage-bait new articles.

Only do this if you're part of the in-group. If you're part of the out-group and reveal yourself, you could lose your job, friends, and more. If you were to reach out or fraternize with someone like James Damore, you will likely be cast out.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#39

Post by mcguire »

didgeoridoo wrote: post #23
asdfman123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that relationship holds true? I've talked to more ordinary college students and they're pretty reasonable, normal people too. Perhaps what's more likely is a tiny fraction of toxic people who use the social justice toolbox illegitimately are amplified disproportionately. The world has always had toxic annoying people. There's always been that lady at church that pretends to be into Jesus but secretly jus…

The point is that the tiny toxic fraction is unlikely to pursue a curriculum that starts with the assumption that the western canon is worth reading and understanding deeply.

But then, there's the tiny, toxic fraction that starts with the assumption that the western canon is the only thing worth reading and understanding.

The two fractions are almost indistinguishable from the outside.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#40

Post by [deleted] »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

[deleted]
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