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Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#101

Post by chrisseaton »

Marsymars wrote: post #96
chrisseaton wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone like Dennis Muilenburg then? If the last one was an engineer, why would another engineer restore your confidence any more?

I mean, I wasn’t particularly down on Muilenburg, I’m aware of his credentials, but haven’t followed this Boeing story closely enough to have an opinion on his culpability with respect to the 737 MAX. So yes, if they were going to replace the CEO for the optics, “someone like Dennis Muilenburg” would have been the best-case scenario for me, rather than someone with non-engineering background/specialty. For a sports a…

I think Boeing's problems are related to leadership and having the courage to do the right thing. Good leaders can come from accountancy or engineering or wherever. We shouldn't be snobby about it and insist on an engineer when the issue at that level is not an engineering problem.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#102

Post by darksaints »

CydeWeys wrote: post #28

Maybe the next CEO will actually try to fix things, seeing as how his job will likely depend on it. Fuck up like Muilenburg did and you're out too. It seems like the incentives may be correct now to focus on the right things rather than just cut costs as much as possible. Hopefully!

The new CEO comes from Blackstone. I'd say it is even more likely that he'll double down on the cost cutting.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#104

Post by rectang »

pseudolus wrote: post #16

The story of the ouster to inevitably be followed by the story of the massive compensation package he'll receive.

With executive compensation packages as big as they are today, and the likelihood that even if some gets clawed back you'll still be ahead to the tune of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, the incentives towards short-termism and malfeasance will remain overwhelming.

The idea that the next CEO will be incentivized to do anything other than pump and dump is laughable.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#105

Post by salawat »

MaupitiBlue wrote: post #22
philshem wrote: post #9

November 2019 New Yorker piece about what went wrong at Boeing https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/18/the-case-again... tl;dr engineers vs. accountants

BS! Which of these was done by the accountants? 1. Drive MCAS with only one AOA sensor. 2. Don't tell MCAS to look for (or even think about) bad AOA data or AOA disagreements. 3. Don't actually bother to tell pilots that they don't have AOA disagree warning lights. 4. Don't bother to tell pilots that MCAS exists at all. 5. Don't test MCAS subsystem to see what it actually does with bad AOA data. 6. Give MCAS a ridicu…

While your message has surface truth to it, if you've done any type of engineering before, you'd know that your designs #1 shaper is your time and financial constraints.

Engineers told to "make it happen" while all safety backdrops they have get undermined by from the top business mandates end up having to make bad decisions.

I'll accept that the engineers involved had the chance too say no. I won't, however, accept the assertion the business/sales people do not share some level of blame for not realizing that they were making impossible demands, and that the resistance from engineering was not just something to be worked around by busting the union, or misleading customers and regulators.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#106

Post by masklinn »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #54

Why don't they just kill the 737 MAX program and start on another aircraft? As a consumer it will build confidence and trust in me.

The issue is it doesn't change the problem: the MAX programs exists for political and (lack of) ethical reasons: companies wedded to 737s (like Southwest) which want larger and more efficient planes without type change (without having to re-train crew). And rather than refuse to work on this, Boeing's management asserted they could do it, then left engineering to square the circle.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#107

Post by dmix »

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

It’s funny how people treats unions as panaceas to all problems.

It’s strange to present them as some sort of solution in this case, where there was widespread engineering and management cultural issues, and would therefore somehow have prevented major air disasters.

Workers rights and forcing higher wages might be great for the working poor and it might actually make economic sense in certain niche industries where protectionism can prevent the companies entire business being eaten by Chinese/global ones without the myriad of rules and restrictions that unions being - rules that go well, well beyond wages. But it is not some grand solution to high level engineering problems caused by stupid cost saving priorities made by C-class executives and other weakness in quality down the line.

Further, non-union companies are more often the default these days, and tons of these companies are producing high quality American engineering and manufacturing products.

Even in the romanticized history of US labor only a minority of working Americans were ever in unions even during the hayday when it actually made sense to have unions (when America had tons of factories and manufacturing but little global competition and plenty of protectionism to artificially keep them alive).

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#108

Post by zaroth »

MaupitiBlue wrote: post #58
jacobush wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 and 7 were the raison d'être for MCAS in the first place. Clearly above engineer level.

FTA “Boeing considered the mcas feature to be so minor that it removed mention of it from the 737 max’s pilot manual.“ The accountants don’t write the pilot manuals.

I’m pretty sure that’s the post-facto explanation, but in reality it was kept out of the manual because putting it in and trying to explain the way that it operates would have been a blaring alarm siren of how horribly fubar the system was designed.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#109

Post by mihaaly »

v77 wrote: post #36
solatic wrote: post #4

After both The Economist[1] and The New York Times [2] publicly undermined faith in Dennis Muilenberg. No question at this point that he needed to be replaced. The question is - why didn't the board act sooner? [1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/business/boeing-dennis-mu...

The Times article was the last straw, you know the board members all read that. Plus the space launch failure.

I 'love' when board acts lightning fast on publicity rather than on the long lasting problems.

They sure look being a 'reliable' and 'competent' gang now.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#110

Post by fny »

panarky wrote: post #95
solatic wrote: post #4

After both The Economist[1] and The New York Times [2] publicly undermined faith in Dennis Muilenberg. No question at this point that he needed to be replaced. The question is - why didn't the board act sooner? [1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/business/boeing-dennis-mu...

The NYT story in particular was hard-hitting and well sourced. Gotta wonder if these stories influenced the board to act now. It's a bad look, because Boeing is consistently way too late to recognize what is obvious to those of us watching from home. I continue to be astounded that our most senior leaders will not act in the long-term best interest of the organizations they lead. It's been 37 years since the Tylenol…

How do you know the brand wouldn't have recovered from the 27% loss anyway?
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