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Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

uncontactedtribes.org

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Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#351

Post by parfe »

Tutorialzine wrote: post #339
zachallaun wrote: post #3

"If illegal loggers or miners contact these people, they won't shoot images... They'll shoot guns." Very few realize that there's more to protect in the Rainforest than trees.

You can't imagine how right you are. Tribes like this do not exist officially. Loggers would not hesitate to wipe them off - problems solved, no questions asked. What is more troublesome, is that nobody knows how often this has happened in the past.

I'm surprised you can so easily equate illegal loggers with mass murders.

I'm actually a bit shocked at a lot of the comments here. This story has brought out the crazy in a lot of posters that's generally suppressed by the focused theme of HN.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#352

Post by parfe »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #205

Meta about some of the comments on this post: I've never seen such unbridled arrogance and xenophobia in a post on HN before. The our way or the highway attitude is shocking.

I think the focused nature of HN content generally hides the crazy. Even though the site is populated by techs and businessmen we're still pretty much just a random cross section of society, only linked by our common interest.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#354

Post by ylem »

Given loggers, or just the general expansion of modern civilizations, they will run into the outside world. Wouldn't it be better if they were given a gentle introduction? Send in some speakers and voice/video feeds. Eventually send in people. If they want to be left alone afterwards, it's their choice. If some people want to explore the outer society, let them.

If you look at say, Malaysia, the Iban have done pretty well in Sarawak--contact doesn't have to result in the destruction of the natives...

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#355

Post by DufusM »

Helianthus16 wrote: post #323
DufusM wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit presumptuous to assume that India or S.A. would not have made progress or exchanged "intellectual" information without a country sailing over and lording over it for a hundred years. Disclaimer: I am an Indian.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm making an assertion--an assertion that could be right or wrong. In particular I am not assuming/asserting that India or S.A. would not have made progress. I am saying that the effects of colonial rule are so unstable and so varied that it can be difficult to the point of meaninglessness to say a country would be "better" or "worse" without it. The Bengal Renaissance is a documented move…

Technically, I agree, but using this same logic, the effects of _any_ major historical incident are so unstable and so varied that "it can be difficult to the point of meaninglessness to say a country would be "better" or "worse" without it."

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#356

Post by warrenwilkinson »

javajones wrote: post #265
raganwald wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your perspective differ from the perspective of the missionaries who attempted to bring "salvation" to indigenous peoples around the world? How does your perspective differ from the perspectives that led to the imposition of the Residential Schools? https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Canadian_Indi... Also, nothing I wrote says anything about providing them with access , it says something about de…

These people will be contacted by the modern world one way or another. I choose to help them not treat them like animals to be set on display at a zoo. Let them be the decision makers in their own destiny. Like the guy said, loggers will come in and kill them. We can at least give them the ability to speak for themselves. And that unfortunately means someone is going to have to make contact with them.

You make a lot of sense. Whether they should be contacted or not is irrelevant. They will be. Besides, while we pretend they're invisible, they'll be defending themselves from the worst in our society.

They have human rights, but theirs haven't teeth until they're in communication with a world ready to honor them. The real issue is how can we safely open a dialog.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#357

Post by niqolas »

raganwald wrote: post #9

You know that Golden Rule?" Not the one that VCs quote, but the one that goes "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?" We should think about that when we choose how to deal with uncontacted tribes. It may be that one day another intelligence will need to decide how to deal with us, and on that day I hope we can say, "Yes, we used to have a habit of massacring technologically inferior peoples we encounte…

The concept of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?" is implicitly biased as it project's your worldview/morals/values/etc onto the "others" in question.

If the goal is to understand, support and/or show respect for the uncontacted tribes, I think the focus should be adjusted to: "Do unto others as they want you to do unto them".

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#358

Post by sobbybutter »

BoppreH wrote: post #141
lwhi wrote: post #16

Poor poor people - they'll be better off if we stay away. EDIT: There is absolutely no chance that our western society has 'got it right'. If you think otherwise, I'm afraid you're deluding yourself.

Our life expectancy and education is literally thousands of years ahead of anything they have. You can argue about violence, capitalism and religion, and I'd agree, but parts of our culture are better then theirs in easily measurable ways.

What does it matter if some parts of our culture are better in "easily measurable ways?" If one is making the case whether or not these people should be exposed to the Western world, one must keep in mind the net utility that would be added to their lives. It could very well be negative. At that point, higher life expectancy and education would be irrelevant.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#359

Post by wazoox »

xenophanes wrote: post #348
wazoox wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so you dislike right wing, and apparently despise left-wing. So what are you, apolitical? I have news for you : people calling themselves apolitical usually are right wing, preferably of the wingnut/fascistic category :) Sorry to bother you. What kills me is that it's almost impossible to have a good coherent political discussion on usenet, forums, whatever. It devolves incredibly fast in flamebait, and that's a…

If you want a political discussion try here: http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/ Or email me. I'm a (classical) liberal. This does not fit into the "political spectrum" very well. You might think that being pro-capitalism is right wing but most of the mainstream right wing is not really capitalist and doesn't have that much in common with me. They also do stuff like oppose abortions and gays, favor…

As you know, "right" and "left" aren't that meaningful, conservative vs progressive, authoritarian vs liberal are probably more significant oppositions.

I'll have a look to the group.

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