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Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

uncontactedtribes.org

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Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#341

Post by nitrogen »

forensic wrote: post #188
narrator wrote: post #96

I am really getting a kick out of the ironic juxtaposition of the most technologically primitive segment of the world population getting space up here at the top of Hacker News. After all, the Hacker News audience represents arguably the most technologically sophisticated segment of the world population.

Unfortunately I think Hacker News, in this thread, is providing support to the thesis that there is something about the engineer mindset that is inherently authoritarian and extremist. http://www.slate.com/id/2240157/

Perhaps when your job is to be right, and success or failure is quite clear (either the program compiles or it doesn't; either the bridge supports its design weight or it crumbles), it's easy to extend that mindset to the rest of the world.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#342

Post by drndown2007 »

gokhan's comment is buried quite deep, but needs to be seen:

"Check the FAQ first: http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and....

But could this be because they don’t see the benefits of ‘our’ way of life? If they knew, might they want to join us?

They won’t get the chance. In reality, the future offered by the settler society is to ‘join’ at the lowest possible level often as beggars and prostitutes. History proves that tribal peoples end up in a far worse state after contact, often dead."

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#343

Post by jordan0day »

Mz wrote: post #297
jordan0day wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"BTW: you to know that Western medicine is not the only medicine in the world. " First off, can we not call it "Western medicine?" Because what you're calling "Western medicine" happens to be practiced all over the world. I'd prefer to call it "science-based medicine" or "evidence-based medicine", although I will admit the applicability of those labels is more range-based than absolute. However, you're right. Western…

Actually, I've pursued "alternative" medicine for treating my (very deadly) medical condition and gotten much better results than "modern" medicine can promise. I have a form of cystic fibrosis, as does my 23 year old son. I have gotten off 8 or 9 prescription drugs. I have not been on antibiotics for about 7 years. I have been drug free for about 18 months. My son has not been on antibiotics in nearly 13 years. He h…

I have no reason to not believe you, and I'm very glad that it sounds like you've found something that is working for you. I wrote my original message at about 2 a.m., and re-reading it in the light of day I realize I missed a few qualifiers. Namely, that "western" medicine doesn't have all the answers and that voodoo medicine can work. We trust "western" medicine more, however, because effort has been put into at least trying to understand the underlying mechanisms of both the disease and the treatment. That doesn't mean it always gets it right, but it's better than trying to explain that your CF symptoms are caused by your chi being out of whack.

That's not to say that they are not, in fact, caused by your chi being out of whack. We just really have no real evidence that that is the case, whereas we do have a scientific basis for the present "western" explanation for CF and its' treatments. Anyway, you sound reasonable and I imagine most of what I just wrote is essentially preaching to the choir.

"Modern medicine has it's good points. But a lot of other traditions also have value. I think it is unproductive and a straw-man argument to pit them against each other. I don't see why we can't take from both and build something better than either."

I agree with this. There's a lot of value in traditions and common sense. In reality, medicinal treatments arrived at through modern, scientific processes, and treatments arrived at through tradition are somewhat similar, process-wise. Both are evolutionary processes in which superior treatments are selected over time and inferior treatments fall out of use. I don't want to equivocate, however. In western medicine, the ways in which new treatments are proposed is more evidence-based, and the feedback loop for determining the efficacy of a treatment is much faster.

Anyway, like I said at the beginning, I have no real reason to believe that you're not telling the truth, and as such, I would really encourage you to try to get your message out to the medical community. You may be dismissed by many as "one lone nutcase", but if diet and lifestyle can better treat CF for the population at large it's important that that message get out.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#344

Post by Mz »

jordan0day wrote: post #343
Mz wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I've pursued "alternative" medicine for treating my (very deadly) medical condition and gotten much better results than "modern" medicine can promise. I have a form of cystic fibrosis, as does my 23 year old son. I have gotten off 8 or 9 prescription drugs. I have not been on antibiotics for about 7 years. I have been drug free for about 18 months. My son has not been on antibiotics in nearly 13 years. He h…

I have no reason to not believe you, and I'm very glad that it sounds like you've found something that is working for you. I wrote my original message at about 2 a.m., and re-reading it in the light of day I realize I missed a few qualifiers. Namely, that "western" medicine doesn't have all the answers and that voodoo medicine can work. We trust "western" medicine more, however, because effort has been put into at le…

...I would really encourage you to try to get your message out to the medical community. You may be dismissed by many as "one lone nutcase", but if diet and lifestyle can better treat CF for the population at large it's important that that message get out.

Thanks. I have a website. I don't think the medical community will ever listen to me. But sick people might -- some of them do anyway. I just need to find better ways to convey the information.

Thanks.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#345

Post by Herald_MJ »

xenophanes wrote: post #27
raganwald wrote: post #9

You know that Golden Rule?" Not the one that VCs quote, but the one that goes "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?" We should think about that when we choose how to deal with uncontacted tribes. It may be that one day another intelligence will need to decide how to deal with us, and on that day I hope we can say, "Yes, we used to have a habit of massacring technologically inferior peoples we encounte…

We should give them access to technology and to our way of life. Our way of life is better. Preserving their backwards culture so they can continue lives of misery and suffering is just as disgusting as the Prime Directive. Help is exactly what I would want from advanced alien visitors. I don't want them to respect my culture just because it is mine; I want something better for myself, not cultural relativism. There…

I'm not sure if I agree with you, but I really do appreciate you making this point so we can openly debate the merits (and pitfalls) of this perspective.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#348

Post by xenophanes »

wazoox wrote: post #340
xenophanes wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. I do not self-identify as right wing. I dislike most of the right wing. I said some stuff is left wing b/c left wing ppl so often believe it.

OK, so you dislike right wing, and apparently despise left-wing. So what are you, apolitical? I have news for you : people calling themselves apolitical usually are right wing, preferably of the wingnut/fascistic category :) Sorry to bother you. What kills me is that it's almost impossible to have a good coherent political discussion on usenet, forums, whatever. It devolves incredibly fast in flamebait, and that's a…

If you want a political discussion try here: http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/

Or email me.

I'm a (classical) liberal. This does not fit into the "political spectrum" very well. You might think that being pro-capitalism is right wing but most of the mainstream right wing is not really capitalist and doesn't have that much in common with me. They also do stuff like oppose abortions and gays, favor traditional/conservative values, etc (ugh)

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#349

Post by randallsquared »

necolas wrote: post #249
radicaldreamer wrote: post #205

Meta about some of the comments on this post: I've never seen such unbridled arrogance and xenophobia in a post on HN before. The our way or the highway attitude is shocking.

The ignorance and lack of empathy are surprising.

It's unclear whether you agree with the g'parent or disagree. Perhaps that was intentional. :)

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#350

Post by parfe »

colanderman wrote: post #318
Naga wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scope of human sacrifice was largely exaggerated. The book 1491, by Charles C. Mann, puts the amount of people sacrificed per year by the Aztecs at 3000-4000, out of around 30 million people. He compares that to England, which executed 75000 people between 1530 and 1630. England had about 1/10th the population of the Aztecs, and if it had the same, it would have been executing 7500 people each year, around double…

I think your math is off somewhere... if England had the same population (10x more) wouldn't that be 750000 people each year?

His English figure of 75,000 is for the century between 1530 and 1630 while the Aztec figure is yearly.
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