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Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

economist.com

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Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#71

Post by altmind »

zepto wrote: post #47
scarface74 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are millions of “binary blobs” written by third parties on iOS. Its Apple’s responsibility to write an operating system that can run in hostile environments.

We all know that so far nobody has ever created an unassailable operating system. A key tool Apple uses to mitigate the risk is the ability to remove those binary blobs from distribution and to prevent them from running.

According to this presentation, xbox 360 is the closest to be unassailable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VwtOrwceo

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#72

Post by scarface74 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #60
scarface74 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You trust government transparency more than I do. But wasn’t there just a case where Google gave our location data of anyone who was in a certain area. I would much rather that Apple designer a system where it couldn’t give out the information because it didn’t have an unencrypted version of the data in the first place.

> wasn’t there just a case where Google gave our location data of anyone who was in a certain area. "Google first provided location data, but no identifying information, for 19 devices in a 150-meter radius around the bank for a one-hour period that included the robbery. Police then picked out nine of those devices for more information, and Google gave location data on those devices covering two hours. Finally, polic…

I don't see the difference, either way it's a government overreach.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#73

Post by pkaye »

codedokode wrote: post #46
coldtea wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps The US doesn't need to. Most companies dominating the field are US based. If they weren't, the US would turn protectionist and require specific favors from them to let them operate in the USA pronto... A lot of the grandstanding "we would never do that" stems from this dominance...

That's right. Apple and Android firmware is already written by US companies complying with US laws and US court orders. They will do everything court orders so there is no need for an additional law. And, by coincidence, companies that sell equipment with non-US firmware, are not very welcome in the country.

> And, by coincidence, companies that sell equipment with non-US firmware, are not very welcome in the country.

This maybe the case for military equipment. In terms of infrastructure, I think currently its just Huawei equipment that is banned. An other countries are considering that ban too. But we use plenty of equipment from South Korea, Taiwan, EU. I bet the BIOS of most PCs are developed overseas.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#74

Post by imrelaxed »

alehul wrote: post #31
imrelaxed wrote: post #5

This very worrying, particularly because Apple recently caved in and marked Crimea as Russian...

Crimea only appears as Russian if you're viewing it from within Russia, which recognizes Crimea as part of Russia, not Ukraine. If you're viewing Crimea from Ukraine, it will appear as Ukrainian, because Ukraine recognizes Crimea to be part of Ukraine. That seems fair, doesn't it?

That’s not true, if you’re in Ukraine it is not marked as Ukrainian territory, while in Russia it is now marked as Russian.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#75

Post by mensetmanusman »

fierarul wrote: post #49
alehul wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimea only appears as Russian if you're viewing it from within Russia, which recognizes Crimea as part of Russia, not Ukraine. If you're viewing Crimea from Ukraine, it will appear as Ukrainian, because Ukraine recognizes Crimea to be part of Ukraine. That seems fair, doesn't it?

So, literally, everybody lives in their own bubble. Except if the guy from Ukraine drives into Crimea there's a whole foreign army to arrest him.

I wish Apple could just show Russian politicians that Crimea was theirs, but also all of NATO was as well!

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#76

Post by tjomk »

FpUser wrote: post #14
imrelaxed wrote: post #5

This very worrying, particularly because Apple recently caved in and marked Crimea as Russian...

Give enough money and they will mark US as Zimbabwe. It is a corporation that exists to make money for shareholders, duh. What are you worrying in particular anyways? Do you really think that Apple installing the mandated apps or refusing to do so is going to sway Russian lawmakers. I do not think they give a hoot. Neither Apple marking Crimea as Russian will affect what Merkel, Macron, US senate will do about Russia…

It's more about the entertainment and seeing what Russian politicians will do without their iPhones and Apple Watches if Apple were to decline and stop selling in Russia. Because if they do comply it will be boring. No fun here.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#77

Post by soneil »

codedokode wrote: post #51
alehul wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimea only appears as Russian if you're viewing it from within Russia, which recognizes Crimea as part of Russia, not Ukraine. If you're viewing Crimea from Ukraine, it will appear as Ukrainian, because Ukraine recognizes Crimea to be part of Ukraine. That seems fair, doesn't it?

That means that American companies like Apple have admitted that Crimea is a part of Russia, not just an occupied territory of a foreign country? Despite the fact that there are no international treaties that would confirm transferring this territory to Russia?

There’s an interesting mix here though. As a nerd with a passing interest in politics, I don’t want to call Crimea lost. But at the same time, there needs to be a healthy dose of reality - if I’m on the ground, and crossing this imaginary line is going to mean russian soldiers with guns pointed at me - I think I’d prefer my map to render that line, imaginary or not.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#78

Post by johannes1234321 »

scarface74 wrote: post #54
johannes1234321 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only about integrity of the phone. Imagine a state requested application tracks location and sends that up (yeah, need is little as devices can be tracked over cell towers relatively good) when installing they'd certainly require permissions to be set accordingly. Also from Apple's perspective it's about the brand. They don't want to have preloaded crap on a fresh device, where the user can't distinguish whe…

If Apple imposes the same restrictions as any other app - that an app doesn’t get location data without the user’s consent - it’s not different than what any other app on the store can do.

If the law requires to install some software, the law certainly requires to install them in a "working" fashion. Maybe lawmakers miss this in the first iteration. Second iteration however will contain this.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#79

Post by Zenbit_UX »

soneil wrote: post #77
codedokode wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means that American companies like Apple have admitted that Crimea is a part of Russia, not just an occupied territory of a foreign country? Despite the fact that there are no international treaties that would confirm transferring this territory to Russia?

There’s an interesting mix here though. As a nerd with a passing interest in politics, I don’t want to call Crimea lost. But at the same time, there needs to be a healthy dose of reality - if I’m on the ground, and crossing this imaginary line is going to mean russian soldiers with guns pointed at me - I think I’d prefer my map to render that line, imaginary or not.

Agreed, I'd definitely have to 1-star an app if it led me into a DMZ or military blockade.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#80

Post by zepto »

scarface74 wrote: post #69
zepto wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a distinction without a difference. The iPhone has the same mechanism. The references demonstrate that they would use it if they needed to.

The difference is that on the iPhone, when they see a class of bad actors or a real threat model that they didn’t see before, they can tighten the sandbox much easier than they can on the Mac. The zoom fiasco could be prevented on Mac entirely just by clicking on an option that restricts apps from running in the background.

So what? - nobody has yet created an unassailable sandbox, and so these tools are needed.

Saying ‘it’s Apple’s responsibility to make the sandbox secure, is magical thinking’, which is why they need these tools.

As to the Zoom fiasco - who should have clicked on that option?

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